My new Ferocious! (Non- Ford)

[Superfresa]

Hi Everyone!

I have finally decided on a new car, as the Magna was an excelent vehicle but was getting boring. My enthusiasm for off-roading eventually took me down this path.

It is incredibly reliable, and very competent offroad, with plenty torque, low range, proper ladder frame and a proper 4WD system. Incredibly though, it's quite good at everyday driving too. I do lot's of highway driving every day and this thing has amazed me.

It does everything I want it to do and surprises me with its capabilities. And it's incredibly under-rated. I love it!

[PaulST]

Hmmm... :P

[jPod]

Dan, I must be seeing things... in the last photo, are they leaf-springs?



Nah, enough jokes. Looks pretty straight from the photo's... if it makes you happy, and isn't going to break down left right and center (rule out Holden here ) then good job.

[trainman]

Those old Daihatsu's are fairly underrated when it comes to off road use. Should have got the Rocky though, less of a girly look to it.

[Superfresa]

Yeah, they are very under-rated.

I saw a couple of Rockys, but the Turbodiesel spells lots of repair costs. For me right now, the 1.6 Petrol does the job very competently.

Thanks JP! Yep, Leaf sprung in the back. It's not a handler. At all. Like any other proper 4WD.

[jPod]

Quote: Originally Posted by trainman

Those old Daihatsu's are fairly underrated when it comes to off road use. Should have got the Rocky though, less of a girly look to it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Superfresa

Yeah, they are very under-rated. I saw a couple of Rockys, but the Turbodiesel spells lots of repair costs. For me right now, the 1.6 Petrol does the job very competently. Thanks JP! Yep, Leaf sprung in the back. It's not a handler. At all. Like any other proper 4WD.

Whats this? Someone else thinks its girly? No come back? No calling trainman a fanboy?

Why is it leafie dan? What purpose do the leafs serve on your 4WD? Do they improve its capabilities off-road? Do they help with cargo's? Would you rather them to an IRS system that handles great but lowers the cars practicality? Is it all coming together as to why Ford insists on leafs for the wagon and ute?

[mondeoxr5]

Quote: Originally Posted by Superfresa

Thanks JP! Yep, Leaf sprung in the back. It's not a handler. At all. Like any other proper 4WD.

Quote: Originally Posted by jPod

Whats this? Someone else thinks its girly? No come back? No calling trainman a fanboy? Why is it leafie dan? What purpose do the leafs serve on your 4WD? Do they improve its capabilities off-road? Do they help with cargo's? Would you rather them to an IRS system that handles great but lowers the cars practicality? Is it all coming together as to why Ford insists on leafs for the wagon and ute?

Children......Enough already!!!!!

Not a bad pick up Dan...Remeber that DAihatsu taught Toyota how to make a reliable 4x4.... and a good Diesel engine..... SO are you game to take the roof off!! I mean you get plenty of sun down there don't you????

[trainman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Superfresa

saw a couple of Rockys, but the Turbodiesel spells lots of repair costs.

Yeah, IF they let go they do so in a spectacular way! Although I have spoken to a couple of farmers with the ancient Scat's (what a poor naming choice), and one said the only thing he's ever done under the bonnet is change the fan belt! The only other engine I've heard of being that reliable is the useless old 2H from Toyota.

@ jPod, the Feroza is considered Girly, since 99.99% of them sold new to women. Doesn't mean they can't keep up with the rest in thr rough though! The Rocky on the other hand was weird. Lots of them about, but no one seems to have ever claimed to have owned one from new!

[jPod]

Quote: Originally Posted by trainman

@ jPod, the Feroza is considered Girly, since 99.99% of them sold new to women. Doesn't mean they can't keep up with the rest in thr rough though! The Rocky on the other hand was weird. Lots of them about, but no one seems to have ever claimed to have owned one from new!

I never said it was useless off road. I was merely pointing out Superfresa's double standards... I personally consider quite a few cars girly too. Mainly because they are marketed at, and mainly purchased by women. Upon expressing my views, Superfresa has multiple goes at me. I was merely pointing out that others think some cars are girly too, but he doesn't have a go at them. I wasn't having a go at you, or his car.

[Elements]

I reckon you should start by getting rid of that thing on the rear step in the last picture!

Regarding the Leafies, it has its place on this type of vehicle, but not a passenger-vehicle-derived car. While BFIII has it's place in the market right now - I would be sorely disappointed if Ford came out with an FG Wagon (hypotheically, of course) with leaf springs.

Patrol still has Live Front Axle, and that's fine by me (heck, it still does a damn good job offroad!), but I would be disappointed if the all-new one still had it...!

[Superfresa]

Few things:

- I don't care if anyone thinks its girly. I like it
- You were never called a fanboy based exclusively on calling other cars girly, JP.
- It has leaf springs in the back. I don't recall defending the car's suspension setup? I'd rather have heavy duty, long travel coils, however, the leafs are alright. They do the job fine.
- The Feroza isn't optimized for cargo. The leafs are there, probably because they're cheaper than coils, and are sufficiently tough and reliable.
- I can see how you'd think they're girly, Trainman (And I don't particularly care) but I have only ever seen one driven by a chick.


Pete, I'll deffinitely take the roof off. Certainly the front part of it at least. And all of it on an upcoming trip to Stockton beach, north of Newcastle.

Thanks for the comments

[jPod]

Quote: Originally Posted by Superfresa

Few things: - I don't care if anyone thinks its girly. I like it Not the point - You were never called a fanboy based exclusively on calling other cars girly, JP. But it is one of them, and all of them wrong. - It has leaf springs in the back. I don't recall defending the car's suspension setup? I'd rather have heavy duty, long travel coils, however, the leafs are alright. They do the job fine. Again, not the point. I'm merely using your new car that you love so much to show you that leafs aren't that bad. - The Feroza isn't optimized for cargo. The leafs are there, probably because they're cheaper than coils, and are sufficiently tough and reliable. So it has its advantages. I severly doubt a tall 4WD with live axles and coils is going to handle significantly better than one with leafs, but as you said, it will cost more. - I can see how you'd think they're girly, Trainman (And I don't particularly care) but I have only ever seen one driven by a chick. Just pointing out that I'm not the only one. That is all. Pete, I'll deffinitely take the roof off. Certainly the front part of it at least. And all of it on an upcoming trip to Stockton beach, north of Newcastle. Thanks for the comments

Quote: Originally Posted by Elements

I reckon you should start by getting rid of that thing on the rear step in the last picture! Regarding the Leafies, it has its place on this type of vehicle, but not a passenger-vehicle-derived car. While BFIII has it's place in the market right now - I would be sorely disappointed if Ford came out with an FG Wagon (hypotheically, of course) with leaf springs. Patrol still has Live Front Axle, and that's fine by me (heck, it still does a damn good job offroad!), but I would be disappointed if the all-new one still had it...!

If Ford fits IRS to a new wagon, I can accept that, assuming it isn't like Holdens, with the wheels buckling under load and ridiculous tyre wear. If they fit IRS to the ute, they have sold out.

[Elements]

Quote: Originally Posted by jPod

If Ford fits IRS to a new wagon, I can accept that, assuming it isn't like Holdens, with the wheels buckling under load and ridiculous tyre wear. If they fit IRS to the ute, they have sold out.

Ute - I can deal with XR6T/8 getting IRS - but to drop leafies on Base, R6 and base XR6, then I'd be peeved.

Wagon - I doubt they'd let it be that bad with IRS - though in worst case - they can even go to coil-sprung live rear - would still be a step forward!

[jPod]

Quote: Originally Posted by Elements

Ute - I can deal with XR6T/8 getting IRS - but to drop leafies on Base, R6 and base XR6, then I'd be peeved. Wagon - I doubt they'd let it be that bad with IRS - though in worst case - they can even go to coil-sprung live rear - would still be a step forward!

Ute, all XR's should have IRS. They already only have 550Kg payload, so keeping base XR6 with leafs is pointless... Likewise with the 6 speed auto...

I have confidence that Ford can do a better IRS than Holden, especially based off the sedan IRS setups... The only problem with coil rears is that they take a bit of room for the towers, a problem that doesn't plague leafs as badly. This means that the wagon will have less space, and bump on either side, so less practicality...

[Elements]

Quote: Originally Posted by jPod

Ute, all XR's should have IRS. They already only have 550Kg payload, so keeping base XR6 with leafs is pointless... Likewise with the 6 speed auto... I have confidence that Ford can do a better IRS than Holden, especially based off the sedan IRS setups... The only problem with coil rears is that they take a bit of room for the towers, a problem that doesn't plague leafs as badly. This means that the wagon will have less space, and bump on either side, so less practicality...

There's a 1-tonne option on the base XR6 ute (C/C model only)... So, XR6 C/C has leafies, XR6 SSB has IRS...

And BFIII Wagon already has the wheel tubs protruding into the load area... Look what Ford did with the Mondeo Wagon - pretty good for an IRS wagon...



I maintain my position that any future wagon program (if significant enough to change the rear third of the car) should NOT be leaf sprung AT ALL.

[jPod]

Quote: Originally Posted by Elements

There's a 1-tonne option on the base XR6 ute (C/C model only)... So, XR6 C/C has leafies, XR6 SSB has IRS... And BFIII Wagon already has the wheel tubs protruding into the load area... Look what Ford did with the Mondeo Wagon - pretty good for an IRS wagon... I maintain my position that any future wagon program (if significant enough to change the rear third of the car) should NOT be leaf sprung AT ALL.

Unfortunately, that mondy wagon will not tow nearly as much as a Falcon wagon - which a good IRS shouldn't affect any way, but the mondy being FWD doesn't have to also cater for a diff in the IRS system... its IRS is a heck of a lot smaller than a Falcons would be. Also, the mondeo doesn't have nearly as much space.

An IRS system in the current wagon will take up more space than the wheel tubs already do. The floor will have to be raised, because one main advantage of leaf sprung beams is that they nearly are completely flat (unlike trailing arm beams and IRS). If Ford do a "sportswagon" style FG (not gonna happen) I won't cry myself to sleep if they do it in IRS, but if they want to keep it for the trade, then they should stick to leafs... it will also cost less per car.

I also don't beleive XR6 should even be available in CC. Its a sports ute for goodness sake!!! The XR6 badge is damaged enough as it is!

[FG40]

Isn't that a bit risky going to Stockton from canberra it's like 400kms in the
feroza wouldn't be that nice on the highway would it. Small motor and lots of weight. ??? Does that have the charade engine. They go hard my mrs had a l205

[trainman]

Quote: Originally Posted by jPod

An IRS system in the current wagon will take up more space than the wheel tubs already do. The floor will have to be raised, because one main advantage of leaf sprung beams is that they nearly are completely flat (unlike trailing arm beams and IRS). If Ford do a "sportswagon" style FG (not gonna happen) I won't cry myself to sleep if they do it in IRS, but if they want to keep it for the trade, then they should stick to leafs... it will also cost less per car.

With the current control blade, it should squeeze in nicely. It's rather compact height wise, and the blades can bolt to the existing front leaf mount area. No reason to raise the floor height for IRS to go under it. Maybe for a watt's link live axle, but not for a decent IRS.

[jPod]

Quote: Originally Posted by trainman

With the current control blade, it should squeeze in nicely. It's rather compact height wise, and the blades can bolt to the existing front leaf mount area. No reason to raise the floor height for IRS to go under it. Maybe for a watt's link live axle, but not for a decent IRS.

Yes, it does fit. I have seen a control blade unit shoe-horned into the ute. Its a good system (if it wasn't for the rubbish bushings). Saying that, the floor of a ute is a fair bit higher up than the floor of a wagon, so I'm not so sure about it bolting straight in with a wagon...

[FG40]

A single body ute and IRS would be nice but then whats the point of a ute then I guess.

[trainman]

Quote: Originally Posted by jPod

Yes, it does fit. I have seen a control blade unit shoe-horned into the ute. Its a good system (if it wasn't for the rubbish bushings). Saying that, the floor of a ute is a fair bit higher up than the floor of a wagon, so I'm not so sure about it bolting straight in with a wagon...

Don't forget there is ample height under the wagon for the movement you get in the diff. About as much as the ute!

It would need to have a different carrier to bolt straight in, but it COULD be done. That's one of the biggest advantages with the control blade, it's compact nature. And that's where Ford might need to look if they want to keep all those fleet customers coming back for the Panel Van!

[Elements]

If you design the wagon AROUND the IRS, you'll get maybe a slight decrease in room, but you'll decrease production complexity (BIG PLUS, there's cost savings to be made here!), have better ride, better handling, better NVH, while not compromising towing capacity, or all-round practicality.

The Mondeo is but one example of where the IRS doesn't interfere that much with the load space as . Of course that wouldn't be representative of Falcon Wagon due to MANY factors, it doesn't take a fully qualified Engineer to tell that.

Mondeo doesn't even have the length in the load area that Falcon wagon has. They're completely different cars - that picture was there to demonstrate that IRS isn't all bad in a wagon. It's the sleek, low-slung proportions which is doing the most harm to how much it can swallow...

Mondeo wagon has 715kg Payload - not bad for a bum-dragging IRS-sprung sum*****. Don't start with the towing - we know Ford Aus can pull that off.

This thing is as close as any other car will get to be a Crown Victoria. It's archaic, and belongs in the 20th century. Fleet market is too small to chase if you're doing a redeisgn - go where the money is - private buyers. Offer IRS, or Watts-link minimum.

If Ford have a clean-sheet go at a Falcon Wagon and stick with Leafies - that's the day I lose ALL faith in them.

[jPod]

Quote: Originally Posted by Elements

If you design the wagon AROUND the IRS, you'll get maybe a slight decrease in room, but you'll decrease production complexity (BIG PLUS, there's cost savings to be made here!), have better ride, better handling, better NVH, while not compromising towing capacity, or all-round practicality. The Mondeo is but one example of where the IRS doesn't interfere that much with the load space as . Of course that wouldn't be representative of Falcon Wagon due to MANY factors, it doesn't take a fully qualified Engineer to tell that. Mondeo doesn't even have the length in the load area that Falcon wagon has. They're completely different cars - that picture was there to demonstrate that IRS isn't all bad in a wagon. It's the sleek, low-slung proportions which is doing the most harm to how much it can swallow... Mondeo wagon has 715kg Payload - not bad for a bum-dragging IRS-sprung sum*****. Don't start with the towing - we know Ford Aus can pull that off. This thing is as close as any other car will get to be a Crown Victoria. It's archaic, and belongs in the 20th century. Fleet market is too small to chase if you're doing a redeisgn - go where the money is - private buyers. Offer IRS, or Watts-link minimum. If Ford have a clean-sheet go at a Falcon Wagon and stick with Leafies - that's the day I lose ALL faith in them.

Yes, if FoA DESIGN AROUND IRS, then it would be good. But if they do that, the car has to be more of a Sportswagon style car, where payload and space isn't an important criteria. Remember that Sportswagon has less space than a Mondy in the back. If Ford was to shoehorn IRS into the current wagon, it wouldn't be so good. As I said many times, if Ford fit IRS to the wagon, i wouldn't cry myself to sleep. If they fit IRS across the ute range, therefore killing it as a work-horse, i will be disappointed. If it is to go on utes (which is very easy to do), it has to be XR range only.

[Superfresa]

Quote: Originally Posted by James

Isn't that a bit risky going to Stockton from canberra it's like 400kms in the feroza wouldn't be that nice on the highway would it. Small motor and lots of weight. ??? Does that have the charade engine. They go hard my mrs had a l205

It's fine on the highway, did 120km/h all the way from Sydney when I picked it up. Road noise is not terribly different than the Magnas, just the rpm count sits on 4000 rather than whatever the Magna used to sit on. I was impressed it was that good at highway, which is obviously not its element.

It only weights around 1200kg. It has the Applause HD engine (1.6L). I don't see any risk at all.

I do need a new clutch and new tyres, coming very soon.

[trainman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Superfresa

I do need a new clutch and new tyres, coming very soon.

Mud terrains by any chance?