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Thread: FG 5.0 335 Kw & 2014 XR8 ENGINE BUILD.

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    Default FG 5.0 335 Kw & 2014 XR8 ENGINE BUILD.

    We know that the next XR8 is inheriting the Aussie built 5.0 Miami, and for those who find it difficult to believe the the Miami 5.0 335 Kw & 315 Kw engines (same engine, just different Tune), are totally hand built in Australia (from a bare block), might find this 8 min video enlightening:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPeYEG76ii8

    Unlike the SS Commondoor 6.0 V8 and the HSV 6.2L - they are not mass produced in the USA, and come out of a BOX !!
    Last edited by stevefreestyle; 02-06-2014 at 10:56 PM.
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    Default Re: FG 5.0 335 Kw & 2014 XR8 ENGINE BUILD.

    when you 'hand build' a motor us engineers know
    you can check tolerances and settings much closer
    than a robot can. Mass production has its downside.
    Most of the best cars still are hand built. You can
    see what your building and your motor builders
    can really get those extra nm and kw hiding..

    compared to a mass built 6.2 Chevy you
    can push a Boss much harder especially
    when you add a intercooler...

    Its a shame we hav'nt got the chance to
    find a few extra kw and nm in the 5.8 version...

    With that supercharger whine sounds better
    than most car stereos- lol
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 03-06-2014 at 08:55 AM.

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    Default Re: FG 5.0 335 Kw & 2014 XR8 ENGINE BUILD.

    I'm pretty sure the reason these engines are hand built is because it is not worth interrupting the production line for a low volume non standard production run. There isn't really that much in FPV's hand building process that would give it any performance advantage over a production line built engine. I didn't see any pre-assembly to check bearing clearance , piston to bore clearance, block blueprinting or piston ring gap. The rotating assembly was not custom balanced and the cylinder heads combustion chambers were not cc'd. There are more but you probably get the drift.

    Having said all that, today's production tolerances are much tighter than days of yore when companies like Holman Moody would take engines off the production line and build them to blueprint specs for racing.

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    Default Re: FG 5.0 335 Kw & 2014 XR8 ENGINE BUILD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    I'm pretty sure the reason these engines are hand built is because it is not worth interrupting the production line for a low volume non standard production run. There isn't really that much in FPV's hand building process that would give it any performance advantage over a production line built engine. I didn't see any pre-assembly to check bearing clearance , piston to bore clearance, block blueprinting or piston ring gap. The rotating assembly was not custom balanced and the cylinder heads combustion chambers were not cc'd. There are more but you probably get the drift.

    Having said all that, today's production tolerances are much tighter than days of yore when companies like Holman Moody would take engines off the production line and build them to blueprint specs for racing.
    Stevo, did you actually watch the video ???

    Firstly Ford / FPV could have just imported the Crate Coyote engine, and just slapped the S/C on - easy ! However they chose to re-engineer it with many Australian components.

    Whilst he does not go into great detail, he does clearly and unequivocally indicate that all pre-assembly Blocks, Crankshafts, Pistons, Bearings & Camshafts are "Inspected". The process of "Inspection involves accurate measurement and grading of tolerances, thus EACH Bearing, and Piston to Bore Clearances (tolerances) are checked (ie Measured & Matched) on each Engine Block, Piston, Crankshaft, individual Bearings and Camshaft. These are then matched in a unique "Kit" for each engine, comprising Pistons, Rings, Bearings, Block and Crank, with details of each individual bearing etc recorded on a document which stays with the engine, and is retained by FPV.

    The Rotating Assembly is then "Torque & Turn " Tested with & without pistons. He does not refer to the process of building the heads, other than to say the Camshafts are "selected" for each individual engine (presumably bearing tolerances). He referrs to the Pistons as being "selected", which obviously refers to Piston to Bore tolerance, however could also involve weight selection.

    I think perhaps you should watch it again.

    Cheers

    Steve
    Last edited by stevefreestyle; 05-06-2014 at 12:09 PM.
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    Default Re: FG 5.0 335 Kw & 2014 XR8 ENGINE BUILD.

    Quote Originally Posted by stevefreestyle View Post
    Stevo, did you actually watch the video ???

    Firstly Ford / FPV could have just imported the Crate Coyote engine, and just slapped the S/C on - easy ! However they chose to re-engineer it with many Australian components.

    Whilst he does not go into great detail, he does clearly and unequivocally indicate that all pre-assembly Blocks, Crankshafts, Pistons, Bearings & Camshafts are "Inspected". The process of "Inspection involves accurate measurement and grading of tolerances, thus EACH Bearing, and Piston to Bore Clearances (tolerances) are checked (ie Measured & Matched) on each Engine Block, Piston, Crankshaft, individual Bearings and Camshaft. These are then matched in a unique "Kit" for each engine, comprising Pistons, Rings, Bearings, Block and Crank, with details of each individual bearing etc recorded on a document which stays with the engine, and is retained by FPV.

    The Rotating Assembly is then "Torque & Turn " Tested with & without pistons. He does not refer to the process of building the heads, other than to say the Camshafts are "selected" for each individual engine (presumably bearing tolerances). He referrs to the Pistons as being "selected", which obviously refers to Piston to Bore tolerance, however could also involve weight selection.

    I think perhaps you should watch it again.

    Cheers

    Steve
    I did watch the video and I listened to the narrative very carefully. I did not interpret the narrative the same way. I made no assumptions only observations.

    I am not disputing the fact that the engines are hand built, nor that they are not well built. What I am disputing is that these engines are somehow better just because they are hand built.

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    Default Re: FG 5.0 335 Kw & 2014 XR8 ENGINE BUILD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    I did watch the video and I listened to the narrative very carefully. I did not interpret the narrative the same way. I made no assumptions only observations.

    I am not disputing the fact that the engines are hand built, nor that they are not well built. What I am disputing is that these engines are somehow better just because they are hand built.
    You know it I know it Stevo. This also applies to aircraft. A machine may
    make it and put it together but sometimes due to durability tests some
    parts turn out good and some turn out bad. The fastest computer
    cpus in the world have a 'bin rate'. The best are 30% better than original
    and the rest cut it as being powerful yet reliable. The fabrication process
    even with the best of engineering cannot always replicate perfection...
    Peoples ideas that computers were better than human intervention
    need to look at some minuses of such system. You remember that
    Johnny Cash song about the man who went against the machine
    and won- as man made the machine- it would know it weaknesses
    would it not?

    Those parts can get changed and you get a better motor out of it with a
    bit of extra handiwork. As before when Ford in Tickford days
    stroked the 5.0 to 5.6 and got a more powerful car than HSV
    but still with less capacity. How I always talked about power-weight...
    and how it can even affect fuel economy.

    No motor is the same even with the best of tolerances and letting
    it run and idle is good to hear for good and bad noises and
    any issues they missed at the factory. Im some aeronautical
    trades it can go through 3 levels+ of QC but planes fall out of the sky.
    The most expensive cars you know are the hand made ones. You
    can put allot of attention into it. I wonder how many man hours did
    it take to build a F-15 or F-22 with a bit of trial and error. Australian
    made Cleveland V8's were once exported to Europe you know.
    If you ask how much is the Boss capable of 335 or more
    like 445 or more with a intercoler Ford does not export to
    the US why????

    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 14-06-2014 at 03:24 PM.

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    Default Re: FG 5.0 335 Kw & 2014 XR8 ENGINE BUILD.

    Such a shame that we will be losing this.

    From watching this, it all looks very low tech but not that dis-similar to this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuc8sVERy6Q

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    Default Re: FG 5.0 335 Kw & 2014 XR8 ENGINE BUILD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paull View Post
    Such a shame that we will be losing this.

    From watching this, it all looks very low tech but not that dis-similar to this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuc8sVERy6Q
    We know who to blame and send our curses to but. Its good we could acheive
    as much as they could- but were never allowed to. Though for the Engineers
    of the world Australia can hold its head high- its the politicans lack
    of forsesight which is the shame. Even David Cameron thinks Abbott
    anti industriaisation will damage the economy with a over-reliance
    on mining and resources. Shows how short term thinking can
    permanently damage a economy...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 06-07-2014 at 11:55 AM.

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