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Thread: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

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    Default $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Some positive news. It's not actually anything out of the ordinary but I figure Ford has to make a big deal about any announcement to counter the anti-Ford Australian journos which seem dead-set on killing Ford.
    [h=4]January 10 2012[/h] [h=3]Ford Announces $103 Million Investment in Local Vehicle Upgrade[/h]
    • Ford invests an additional $103 million in Australian vehicles
    • Upgraded models will further reduce CO2 emissions
    • New models will go on sale in 2014


    DETROIT (US, 09 JAN 2012)
    Ford Motor Company will invest a further $103 million in clean technology and additional upgrades across the locally-produced Falcon and Territory lines; it was announced at the North American International Auto Show today.
    The investment will enhance the competitiveness of Falcon and Territory by further reducing CO2 emissions and improving Falcon’s already enviable safety profile. The upgraded models will be launched in 2014 and will take Falcon through to at least the end of 2016.
    Ford Australia’s product line up now offers customers vehicles with enhanced environmental performance and reduced running costs in every segment in which Ford participates, including Fiesta ECOnetic and diesel, Mondeo EcoBoost, Focus diesel, Territory Diesel, Ranger Diesel and Falcon EcoLPi. Falcon EcoBoost will be launched in the first half of 2012.
    The investment announcement was made by Ford Asia Pacific and Africa President Joe Hinrichs, Ford Australia President and CEO Bob Graziano and Federal Minister for Manufacturing Senator Kim Carr. The funding includes $34 million from within the existing New Car Plan funding envelope and additional support from the Victorian State Government.
    The announced $103 million investment comes on top of a $232 million sustainability initiative – the biggest environmental overhaul in the history of Falcon and Territory – which is now well advanced.
    “Ford Australia’s $103 million investment in the design, engineering and manufacture of Falcon and Territory from 2014 continues our focus on providing vehicles with enhanced environmental performance in every segment in which we compete,” Mr Graziano said.
    “Across our range we are rolling out new smart technologies which improve fuel economy and reduce CO2 emissions while remaining affordable for consumers, through the broader application of diesel engines, smarter powershift transmissions, EcoLPI, and global Ford technologies such as EcoBoost.
    “There’s no doubt the large car segment is challenging, but it can remain viable if we continue to provide buyers what they want – fuel efficiency, design excellence, and features that enhance safety and the driving experience.”
    The environmental initiatives are expected to reduce the CO2 footprint of the Falcon by up to a further 5.3 per cent. These initiatives will include:
    • Improved body aerodynamics: A reduction of 7.5 per cent in aero drag through a series of engineering and design enhancements.
    • Advanced low resistance tyres: A rolling resistance reduction of ten per cent through improved tread compound, more advanced hard inner lining and improved tyre technology to provide more even pressure distribution.
    • A new high technology transmission: A new high-technology six-speed transmission will reduce mass and weight as well as provide better acceleration values through significantly reduced reaction times, reduced vibrations and fuel consumption through improved torque conversion, and adaptive shifting which analyses the driver’s personal driving style and driving conditions and implements optimal shifting accordingly.
    Additional new safety, technology and design features will complement the vehicles’ existing five star ANCAP rating and deliver customers a world-class vehicle package. Further details of the program’s specific features will be announced closer to launch in 2014.
    Mr Graziano said that continually upgrading and improving the CO2 performance of Ford’s local vehicles was the best approach to improving the vehicles’ environmental credentials in the short-to-medium term.
    “Few single technologies are readily available at a price most consumers can afford that by themselves will provide large reductions in CO2. Rather, we are reducing the CO2 footprint of our range – both domestically-produced and imported – through ongoing engineering and development.
    “This $103 million investment is also good news for jobs, as it will provide direct employment for around 300 people during the design and engineering stages ––as well as supporting jobs and investment across our supply chain.”
    Mr Graziano said Australia was one of only 13 countries in the world with the capabilities to design, develop and produce vehicles from the ground up, and that it was important to foster this strategic capability or it would have significant impacts on Australia’s capacity for innovation excellence.
    “Every car manufacturing country in the world receives Government support – most far more than Australia receives – and there are many other countries that are desperate to develop their own auto industries because they know the flow-on impacts it has on education, R&D, skills and jobs, and revenue.
    “We appreciate the support of the Federal Government and the Victorian State Government for this initiative and believe the flow-on benefits across the industry will deliver a positive return for all parties.”

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    I like this quote:

    Joe Hinrichs, president and CEO Ford Asia-Pacific and Africa operations said: "We continue to invest in Falcon and Territory ... but the speculation about the future impacts our employee morale and impacts, we think, our customers unfortunately.

    "In an unprecedented move for us we're talking about a product cycle ... that's beyond the next couple of years to provide some certainty and to remove some of this speculation."
    From The Age Online: http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...110-1psav.html
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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    This is great news for Ford!
    I was bored at work and playing around with photoshop.
    Its dodgey but heres my rendition of the FH Falcon, styling cues obviously from the new Mondeo and Tezza

    New Falcon 2.jpgNew Falcon 1.jpg

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Great news, $34m from government, rest from FordNA.

    Great to put in place next model cycle and stop the speculation for a while.
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    Still, I've owned plenty of Fords before......



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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by docjames View Post
    Great news, $34m from government, rest from FordNA.

    Great to put in place next model cycle and stop the speculation for a while.
    Yes, good news indeed.

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquahead2001 View Post
    I like this quote:



    From The Age Online: http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...110-1psav.html
    I think that sums it up. The funny thing is that this isn't news worthy. It's perfectly normal that Ford NA would approve a project and then send Ford Aus the money, and in the past that would never be made public. Obviously they've been forced to go public with anything that's positive.
    It's now even on the front page of ford.com.au
    Anyway, we've always known that the Falcon was to remain FG based until 2016 (with a facelift in 2014). From then onwards it's less certain...
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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Here's another article

    Ford's manufacturing future in Australia secure till 2016


    11/01/2012 -
    The Ford Falcon will continue to be made in Victoria until at least 2016, with a $103 million production upgrade securing its immediate future and that of 3500 workers.
    - Joel Cresswell
    With the state and federal governments pitching in funds, US-based Ford is upgrading its flagship Falcon range after sales slumped by more than a third in 2011.

    Acting Victorian Premier Peter Ryan said the announcement secured the immediate future of the Falcon and the 3500 jobs at Ford's Geelong and Broadmeadows plants.

    "This secures the jobs that are here, but there was a concern about
    particularly 300 jobs that were perhaps at risk because of design-related issues - now those jobs are secured," Ryan told reporters at the Geelong plant on Tuesday.

    There has been ongoing speculation about the long-term future of the nation's car manufacturing industry but Prime Minister Julia Gillard said her government is determined Australia will continue to make cars.

    "We were told during the days of the global financial crisis that it was impossible that Australia would emerge with a car industry," she told reporters in Gatton in Queensland.

    "We worked with Holden, we worked with Ford, we worked with Toyota and we came through.

    "And we are one of the limited countries now ... where you can move from design to production, all the way across what makes a motor vehicle."

    The Falcon and the Territory SUV will continue to be made at Geelong and Broadmeadows until at least the end of 2016.

    The $103 million will be used to upgrade the models in a bid to revive sales following a shaky 2011 for Ford Australia with Falcon sales dropping by 36.5 per cent to 18,741.

    Tyres, transmissions and body aerodynamics of the models will be changed and the CO2 footprint of the Falcon will be cut by 5.3 per cent.

    The upgraded models will be launched in 2014.

    Speaking at the Detroit Motor Show in the US, Ford Asia-Pacific president and chief executive Joe Hinrichs said the package was a sign of the company's commitment to the two models and its Australian business.

    "In an unprecedented move for us we're talking about a product cycle ... that's beyond the next couple of years to provide some certainty," Hinrichs said.

    But he would not offer any clarity beyond 2016.

    Ford Australia's vice-president for manufacturing Alan Holly said the changes would make the vehicles a more attractive proposition for buyers while also providing direct employment for 300 people during the design and engineering phases.

    "It will enhance the competitiveness and appeal of Falcon and Territory by reducing CO2 emissions," he said.

    "In today's climate of uncertainty and change, a four-plus year pathway for any product is pretty good news."

    The Australian Manufacturing Workers Union said the benefit of the investment stretched beyond the employees at the two factories.

    "This announcement will also be of great importance to Ford's suppliers throughout Victoria and Australia who employ thousands of other Australians in the manufacturing industry," the union's acting secretary Mike Nicolaides said.

    The federal government will provide $34 million but Ford and the state government would not specify their contributions.

    Victorian opposition employment spokesman Tim Pallas said the package had provided comfort to Ford employees but challenged the state government to develop a plan to preserve the local car industry in the long term.

    Source: AAP NewsWire
    Last edited by Sir Rohsis of Liver; 11-01-2012 at 12:26 PM.

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulST View Post
    Some positive news. It's not actually anything out of the ordinary but I figure Ford has to make a big deal about any announcement to counter the anti-Ford Australian journos which seem dead-set on killing Ford.
    You would think Paul some people in the audience would recognise the importance of local factories for manufacturing anything from clothing
    to aeroplane parts would think that manufacturing is'nt a bad thing as long as a product evolves with a market and can provide
    a return on investmant rather than a Mitt Romney sell the dead company and resurrect it under a new name...(???)

    Maybe some work has happened in Washington to prove a serious point of doubt, hopefully GM Australia can accuse
    GM US for ruining the Monaro and making the Statesman the credit it deserves...If Austrailan US coperation on a
    Falcon global RWD concept was done properly why could you not export it in I4T, I6, I6T, V8 and V8SC configs.
    Its range then is priced directly under the BMW 5 series- deliberately. Watch the Euro's squirm...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 11-01-2012 at 02:25 PM.
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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Why isn't the money being put towards longer term things?
    Also wouldn't stop start be easy to implement and more effective to CITY economy (The I6's Achilles Heel)???
    The money should go towards making it eaier to integrate global systems (i.e. SYnc, Voice Activation) for less, since the systems are already developed.
    A Falcon with these features would be easier to justify as a potential LHD export ( LIncoln)

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by FalconIV View Post
    Why isn't the money being put towards longer term things?
    Also wouldn't stop start be easy to implement and more effective to CITY economy (The I6's Achilles Heel)???
    The money should go towards making it eaier to integrate global systems (i.e. SYnc, Voice Activation) for less, since the systems are already developed. A Falcon with these features would be easier to justify as a potential LHD export ( LIncoln)
    Your right. The Falcon I6 once moving has superb fuel economy on the open road where 4 cylinder 'oilers' suffer due to revving
    higher and consuming more fuel.... In traffic however the I6 can be as bad as a V8 if you go over 2500rpm everywhere. Hence the
    LPG I6...still no turbo..yet. A direct injection rack still has not been designed for I6 yet (still trusty MPEFI) and someday this will be done
    for more alternative fuels in the future and better compatibility with them. The LPG setup
    has made a quantum leap from carbied lpg and half carby-injected setups since the new vapor-
    injection setup which should be going for years to come...A new inproved DI I6 should
    make 240kw stock atleast as long as the DOHC cylinder head is designed new (not done since BA)
    to take advantage of DI injection more in the valve body changes perhaps?? All this
    does cost money but hopefully Ford US will know the technological flowdown does
    pay for itself after a while.

    The I4T you have not mentioned should be great around the city...

    Slow takeoffs at the lights are helpful on I6. Considering also the weight factor is looked at (all aluminium or more exotic materials)
    to make the I6 lighter further helping the car superb COG...A even better German gearbox for low revs at 0-40 kmph could
    solve allot of problems with city issues with some car CPU adjusting for traffic conditions...

    As for Sync maybe Ford Aus should call US and talk about closer ties for selling in car gadgets. Personally
    Id rather a 'smart glass' (ie less looking down at the dash and more at the road) front with a HUD now that
    true 21st century car stuff...headlights that follow the road...voice recognition is a given in the Mercedes range s
    why not Ford? Better integration with laptops,tablets- wireless pickup and satellite stuff connections is more for
    international sales these days for Lincoln...

    Voice recognition on come cars is still a touch and go affair though- still...it would be nice to have a car without
    keys you could say 'open sesame' to rofl.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 14-01-2012 at 09:14 AM.
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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye84 View Post
    This is great news for Ford!
    I was bored at work and playing around with photoshop.
    Its dodgey but heres my rendition of the FH Falcon, styling cues obviously from the new Mondeo and Tezza

    Attachment 24504Attachment 24505
    Local designers know how to draw a car on paper or in photoshop hopefully
    first with a idea of a shape first and some older and current designs for inspiration
    however with a minimum of 'tributes' to classic design shapes...to ovoid being
    labelled as copycats...

    The Falcon-Mondeo shape looks too familiar. I think
    the folks who designed the BA shape and got car of the year should have a go
    to have a classic designed sedan reflecting on a time last when Ford Australia
    was number 1 back in 1997...The FG is a good shape that had evolved from
    the AU original so it shows how changing panels should stay with a balance
    of conservative design traditions (EL- BA styling) with a mix of avante garde
    looks such as the polarising AU series. The AU ironically has aged well over time
    when you consider all the other more outrageous shapes other manufacturers that
    have appeared over the years...

    Anyway I always thought the most prettiest cars had a very low front aerodynamic
    co-efficient....hint...the Mondeo shape is not that good there...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 14-01-2012 at 09:25 AM.
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    Senior Member FalconIV's Avatar
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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    By my calculations, CO2 on the 'FH' will be reduced to 220 for petrol 4.0, 190 for ECO LPI (assuming they touch that too). Cd should be .285 ( assuming current value is 0.31, Can anyone clarify FG's drag coefficient?). Pretty impressive but will it stand up in 2014?
    A good strategy,IMO would be to bring out an XR6 Econetic variant thats aimed at fleets.

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by FalconIV View Post
    By my calculations, CO2 on the 'FH' will be reduced to 220 for petrol 4.0, 190 for ECO LPI (assuming they touch that too). Cd should be .285 ( assuming current value is 0.31, Can anyone clarify FG's drag coefficient?). Pretty impressive but will it stand up in 2014?
    A good strategy,IMO would be to bring out an XR6 Econetic variant thats aimed at fleets.
    Ford still is not plugging the LPG I6- with high fuel prices(thank you Mr Oil speculator) you think Ford could not be selling enough...
    and has more power now than the petrol one...and hurts the pocket less.

    I think If we get a new bottom end for the I6 is still longterm- the iron lump still is worth its weight.
    Im sure Ford will investigate dropping car weight to inprove economy to jump the gun from the Japanese?
    We have enough exotic materials now hopefully with better tech to drop atleast 100kg...
    However the EFI is needing of a upgrade. Designing a DI rack for the I6 should not cost that much?
    It would future proof the motor as well. The I4 is a problem as its imported so the viability on
    the car will depend on the motor is actually that much 'cheaper' to run than a LPG I6 is? Then
    the next pertient question is why don't you LPG the I4? Thats a unknown I think. Should get
    the volume sales for what there worth going.

    Aerodynamics is a key. FG is a big improvement over the chunky BA shape and feels more poised
    on the road at highway speeds. Then there is the nest question of any new diffs (BA series diffs
    were plagued with problems we need tougher ones- E series were tougher!) and what transmission
    the Germans will sell us to make our half Kraut Falcons have the get up and go and be more frugal
    on the juice. Bigger brakes as you might imagine is good as well.

    The dash could do with a nice cockpit redo. Maybe J.Mays can put his money where his mouth
    is at take it to Hyundai...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 22-01-2012 at 03:35 PM.
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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by ELSpeedo View Post
    Ford still is not plugging the LPG I6- with high fuel prices(thank you Mr Oil speculator) you think Ford could not be selling enough...
    and has more power now than the petrol one...and hurts the pocket less.
    It is strange isn't it, I've seen possibly 2 or 3 adds for the LPI I6 Falcon and one of them was in a magazine.
    Last edited by oliveoil_popeye; 22-01-2012 at 08:42 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by oliveoil_popeye View Post
    It is strange isn't it, I've seen possibly 2 or 3 adds for the LPI I6 Falcon and one of them was in a magazine.
    I think the issue with LPG is that it's only bought by fleets therefore TV ads are going to be useless. People tight enough to buy an LPG car are also smart enough not to buy a brand new car. A Falcon XR6 with 10,000kms on it will be far cheaper to run than a brand new EcoLpi XR6 because the former's $15K lower purchase price won't be made up for until the car does 200,000kms.
    I'm not sure how to chance people's attitudes to realise that a LPG Falcon is actually far cheaper than a diesel Mondeo or Mazda6, though. People seem obsessed by the risk of running out of LPG (does anyone do that any more? No...) or having a flat tyre (also never happens).

    If the EcoBoost Falcon has stop-start technology is would be brilliant. Can someone with more mech know-how explain why the EB4 Falcon doesn't have it? Transmission? Batteries?
    Last edited by PaulST; 25-01-2012 at 09:09 PM.
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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulST View Post
    I think the issue with LPG is that it's only bought by fleets therefore TV ads are going to be useless. People tight enough to buy an LPG car are also smart enough not to buy a brand new car. A Falcon XR6 with 10,000kms on it will be far cheaper to run than a brand new EcoLpi XR6 because the former's $15K lower purchase price won't be made up for until the car does 200,000kms.
    I'm not sure how to chance people's attitudes to realise that a LPG Falcon is actually far cheaper than a diesel Mondeo or Mazda6, though. People seem obsessed by the risk of running out of LPG (does anyone do that any more? No...) or having a flat tyre (also never happens).

    If the EcoBoost Falcon has stop-start technology is would be brilliant. Can someone with more mech know-how explain why the EB4 Falcon doesn't have it? Transmission? Batteries?
    What makes you think fleet is the only buyers of LPG cars, I know lot of people bought new & used LPG fords.... it depends on what they can afford....
    I buy LPG tomorrow but will not atm as I travel Australia wide and the sad fact is not many servos in regional & remote areas have LPG...

    When you travel a lot Paul then you might realize fuel and flat tires is a big issue..... in the city you have your auto clubs to help you...

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    my job for tommorrow is replace a flat tyre---off to get new NCT next week.second tyre in 40K..


    never come close to running out of gas with the wagon---but it has a 1100/1300km range.121-128 liter fill sedan not that good..and needs limp home petrol[10liters]
    but gas supplies in most rural areas is dubious and you have to look for it--IE cant give it to a first time driver or my mum a car without a map and instructions and the service attendant cant be busy.been there done that.
    Like to see an advertising campain of some type that is realistic even comunity cars with training.my wife and I are constantly asked about using the car,and does it do things that ford wont make it to suit because if they sell more and not get government handouts.thats what its all about-----

    Can someone with more mech know-how explain why the EB4 Falcon doesn't have it? Transmission? Batteries?
    dont take this the wrong way mate-the first VW i saw with it and the grey import prius was great.but for many years truckies will tell you its cheeper to leave the engine running-well above idle.
    Start-Stop is a sales GIMICK to apeal to the green vote in germany-----it doesnt work and is a dumb idea-It all about getting a better score on a bogus test that has no value in real world driving--all issues can be engineered but what realy is the savings------shouldnt you use public transport or drive at better times or drive a hybrid[funny].
    If I had a car with this option it would get used [none] and my wife would ring me in pannic becaust the cars hard to park at woolies.

    except sitting in a traffic jamb or traffic light it might save a little and reduce noise but all this is waisted with an auto that is twice as dumb.
    cheeper to get people to buy micro cars with manual preselect.

    it needs all the extras like water pumps powersteer heaterbrakes to be electric-then the alternator works over time to boil the battery.
    if you have a diesel or compression ignition engine-and no starter motor its a great idea,with petrol most of the restart fuel gets waisted-heat boils the fuel in the rail causing vapour locks.-the pistons swell in the bores and get stuck-oil gets pumped out the exhaust- valves burn-and the starter needed has to be large and well made[dynamo flywheel].

    doing an ADR test its done in a bag situation[all emisions from the car] as a % of distance based on agerage use of most drivers.part of the test is warm up--my car just coming off warmup after 15 km and end of the test.[note radiator vents on EB4].it also does an preset drive[on dyno] taking into account wieght [not drag] part of the drive is sitting stationary idlingall cars pass the same test so all cars are built to pass the test-----but not all cars are used the same..

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    Red face Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    before today--its always been cheeper to buy a falcon and fit LPG.
    then the LPG works.with so many on the road its unbelievable that ford did a half arsed job of building the car to suit conversions.
    with the wagon they made a tank to fit the car---not the car to fit the tank.the convertor and water plumbing is rubbish[my BF is better than older cars].

    What should happen is the falcon should be a lot better because it was built as an intended LPG vehicle-if you mass produce an item then the set up costs reduce---based on that the LPG conversion would be a $10000 job les discount.

    I australia there is a production line war.the mentality is that the car is built on a line then modified.40 years ago body shells was transported across australia to be mated to drivlines.

    paul as i advised you to look hard at a falcon over a mondeo-my neighbours went down the camry route-and have returned.and those that want cheep second car buy korean and are very happy.

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Recently, Ford has been building EcoLPIs in runs of 230-240 a day to replace stock damaged in hailstorm that hit Broadmeadows a while back.
    Most of the damaged stock will either be Pre Delivery repaired and disclosed to potential buyers with discount or offered as is with more discount.
    Those customers with orders awaiting delivery will be notified and given option of repair or replacement cars ASAP.

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davehoos View Post
    my job for tommorrow is replace a flat tyre---off to get new NCT next week.second tyre in 40K..


    never come close to running out of gas with the wagon---but it has a 1100/1300km range.121-128 liter fill sedan not that good..and needs limp home petrol[10liters]
    but gas supplies in most rural areas is dubious and you have to look for it--IE cant give it to a first time driver or my mum a car without a map and instructions and the service attendant cant be busy.been there done that.
    Like to see an advertising campain of some type that is realistic even comunity cars with training.my wife and I are constantly asked about using the car,and does it do things that ford wont make it to suit because if they sell more and not get government handouts.thats what its all about-----


    dont take this the wrong way mate-the first VW i saw with it and the grey import prius was great.but for many years truckies will tell you its cheeper to leave the engine running-well above idle.
    Start-Stop is a sales GIMICK to apeal to the green vote in germany-----it doesnt work and is a dumb idea-It all about getting a better score on a bogus test that has no value in real world driving--all issues can be engineered but what realy is the savings------shouldnt you use public transport or drive at better times or drive a hybrid[funny].
    If I had a car with this option it would get used [none] and my wife would ring me in pannic becaust the cars hard to park at woolies.

    except sitting in a traffic jamb or traffic light it might save a little and reduce noise but all this is waisted with an auto that is twice as dumb.
    cheeper to get people to buy micro cars with manual preselect.

    it needs all the extras like water pumps powersteer heaterbrakes to be electric-then the alternator works over time to boil the battery.
    if you have a diesel or compression ignition engine-and no starter motor its a great idea,with petrol most of the restart fuel gets waisted-heat boils the fuel in the rail causing vapour locks.-the pistons swell in the bores and get stuck-oil gets pumped out the exhaust- valves burn-and the starter needed has to be large and well made[dynamo flywheel].

    doing an ADR test its done in a bag situation[all emisions from the car] as a % of distance based on agerage use of most drivers.part of the test is warm up--my car just coming off warmup after 15 km and end of the test.[note radiator vents on EB4].it also does an preset drive[on dyno] taking into account wieght [not drag] part of the drive is sitting stationary idlingall cars pass the same test so all cars are built to pass the test-----but not all cars are used the same..

    Regardless of what you just said, I think this should be mandatory on all cars. Walking through the Sydney CBD, I wonder why thousands of stationary, gridlocked cars are wasting petrol and giving everyone cancer. Cars would spew out 50% less emissions if they had start-stop, so its definately a worthwhile feature, not everything is about data (ADR81 etc)

  21. #21
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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    In CBD sydney with stop start function I be stunned if you got 10% reduction of emisions.emisions dont stop because the engine isnt running.Plus the added emisions created by of the stop start system function.

    In my experience in sydney gridlock..i normally drop the car at toongabbie or by circling sydney-pass through with very low number of stops.most of the time around castle hill or botany you get that slow moving traffic and that would not allow this function to operate.so the dollars to set it up are a waist of resources.

    Most cars in NSW arent registered in CBD-sydney or high dencity areas or travel in close to stop-start traffic-my last time was at moore park early last year.and the longest i stopped was for 2 cycles of the lights.recently the upper hunter was listed as high user of motor vehicles-this is a very low dencity area with long distance comutes.

    the stats recently released of motor vehicle use in NSW suported a question raised in rural QLD in the late 80's.most of the emision requirements are a waist of resources and dont achieve intended outcomes.

    that said it always been claimed that the increase of cancer in high volumetraffic areaslike penant hills road is cancelled out buy the high number of people effected by lead and smog.CBD is not concidered a high traffic area[quantity of emisions].
    wasting petrol and giving everyone cancer
    switching off the engine reduces the catalist function from working--the fuel burnt heats the catalist to keep it operating.
    most of the stop start cars have been compression ignition and they are already low emision engines--however they give of high levels of particulates on start up.

    I would be much happier demanding that plug in and plug in hybids only be allowed in urban areas.
    Or CNG.

    so its definately a worthwhile feature, not everything is about data (ADR81 etc)
    mechanics like myself will love this function- this would reduce the cost to rural buyers like myself of late model compact vehicles and increse the availability of ECU upgrades.

    I dont understand the data reference?
    australian cars are built to a standard- created by data collection.looked over by university types and argue cases for suspected outcomes.-IE what is needed and the best way to quantify the results
    .
    your car is pure data.the paint the smell the size the buracratic crap...
    Last edited by Davehoos; 30-01-2012 at 05:37 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    I was talking more along the lines of somebody WALKING around the CBD, would have to inhale less teaspoons of crap, or biking, or even driving, if all the cars were stationary. Your catalyst point is only relevant if the cars in question are cold. If a car is sitting in traffic, its probably already up to optimum temperature, and so is the catalyst.
    How can you quantify something variable i.e. how long a car is stationary in traffic, and therefore how can you use data to nullify the advantages of stop-start? Granted data is relevant to every vehicle, but the discrepancy between ADR 81/02 and real world conditions is one example of how it does not always reflect real world conditions.

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    for someone walking at any major road emisions are an issue.hyways produce far more emission hence the drama with tunnels and this is what ULP/cataliser was about.diesel has much better emision for australia but not for the CBD.

    cataliser dont work when cold-they also dont work when slow moving.the very quickly loose the heat needed to work the magic.
    most australian cas dont have the pre-cats to heat the main cat and use systems like dumping fuel/air mixtures into the engine pipes.

    at low speed the issue is hydrocarbon emision so oxygen is pumped into the hot exhaust with an electric pump.modern trucks use urea or gas to jet engine a turbo to create a soot scrubber.

    data is collected and averaged.then seasonally adjusted-depending on your agenda.Im not up on ADR 81 it doesnt apply to my cars.
    my R31 skyline had to pass ADR 27 on ULP [not 27C] it did pass the 2003 level without issue after 160 000 Km. my diesel cars passed smoke and fuel system adr.the hardest part is drive by noise.


    I like the idea that zero emision and bikes in CBD.Im infavour of conjestion TAX.that will empty out sydney faster than you can say "8 more years of clover moore".

    its time to face facts and empty out the cbd decentralise..newcastle cbd has call centers--lotsnothing else.tax offices and admin offices.all the workers comute.
    the companies that moved out are going great.realy do you need to put a telephone on prime land to talk to people in central west and perth.

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    Default Re: $103M confirmed for local Falcon! New model due in 2014.

    407184_10150565249951484_771391483_9001698_2059700680_n.jpg

    geoge street saturday chineese new year.
    see no cars no busses--you can make any stats up to suit you adjenda.

    P/S the sky didnt fall when they shut down the city for prime events.

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