any idea whats causing this? its doing it on both front wheels but the right side is the worst. cheers
any idea whats causing this? its doing it on both front wheels but the right side is the worst. cheers
Like boris said, it could need an alignment.
Looks like theres too much negative camber where the inside contact of the tyre is touching the ground more then the outside contact.
What can cause negative camber? Not sure, maybe ball joint related or bushes in the control arms? Or just out of alignment.
A tyre place can check this out.
Oh I just read something about the ride height of the car. The lower the ride height the more negative the camber (more the inside of the tyre touches the ground then the outside). Have you had your car lowered at all at the front? Lowered springs or something? If its lowered then the camber may need readjusting to get even tyre contact with the road again.
Last edited by baboon; 02-07-2010 at 09:03 PM.
took it to a tyre place, alignment is fine. they said the pressure was low (25) which was funny because i put 30 in them a month ago. anyway they said i should be running about 38, does that sound right?
Whats your tyre size?
i run 38psi all round in 235/45/17. Any thing less i find a bit soft when driving especially in the steering dept. I run up to 42psi in the rear tyres when I got alot of weight in the back.
Maybe try an check psi once a fortnight, get a tyre gauge?
Boris's guesstimates are about spot on. On the taxi's I run 40psi all round but in the private car I run 38psi. Works well for an overall run. For heavier loads you need to bump up the pressure a bit.
Pressure changes all the time with leaks and weather. One month is a long time between check. Ideally you should check every week or when you fill the car with fuel.
I read with interest your little problem.... I had a very similar problem. See this link and my pics in thread #18......
It is a wheel alignment problem.... But it seems many Aligners aren't up to speed with the issues that cause this. It is a camber related issue and needs to have spacers fitted in the upper control arm mounts and the tower. I have been told also that it has to do with "king pin inclination", which is the angle of a straight line vertically thru the lower ball joint and upper ball joint, if u follow.... similar to caster angle, but something to do with when the wheels are turned. caster is with the wheels in the straight ahead position....
you need to find a specialised wheel aligner,,,, not a general one like JAX or Bob Janes or the like.... My guy spent around 3- 3half hours to fit the spacers, due to the access difficulties of the XR8 Boss motor.... I'm told the sixes aren't much better......
I had new NEXEN 6000 tyres fitted and couldn't be happier with the wear of them..... I have done about 7000k and they are still wearing flat and square....
Good luck...... But that IS your problem,,, and I would think many others have the same problems....
And another thing, Tyre pressure will not give u that wear issue,,,,,..
Wrong pressures show up in 2 ways....
LOW...worn tread on inside AND outside of tread....
HIGH.... worn tread on centre of tread..... SIMPLE AS THAT.....
Sounds like a fix XR8J4D.
Its interesting that spacers are needed to correct the camber though. I thought camber settings were correctly set from factory. The only thing I can think that might affect camber over time is things that wear out like ball joints, control arm bushes and suspension struts,springs and rubbers. I would think that if these were all replaced with genuine new parts you wouldnt need the spacers. However it may be a cheaper option to go the spacers instead of new ball joints, control arm bushes, suspension and labour.
Or maybe the stress that is put on the chassis where the control arms mount and the strut tower mounts, might deform and change shape possibly needing spacers to fill in the gap it made and re-correcting the camber?
I know that if you lower the front end a lot using shorter springs or maybe a heavy front bull bar (or maybe a heavy boss motor) you may need these spacers to correct the camber.
Lower tyre pressure and negative camber could cause wear on inside as well. If tyre contact was square with the ground and with lower tyre pressure then I would think inside and outside wear to occur.
I wonder what car Jim47 has and how many K's on the clock?
Well,,, I'm not sure where to start....... Maybe I could suggest you google front suspensions to get an understanding of 'camber' and other angles and set ups.....
I'm not being rude or anything but it probably isn't enuff room here to get into it all....
But I will say that most cars have some form of camber adjustment, be it by spacers or camber pins (offset bolts turned like a cam)....
But, specific to the BA, if u look at the inside (engine bay) of the tower, u will see 4 long bolts (2 at front and 2 at rear) with nylock nuts on them. (adjacent to the head/rocker cover area of the V8). These are the upper control arm mounts, and so the spacers are placed between the mount and the outer side(spring area) of the tower, thus moving the upper control arm 'outwards' and therefore moves the upper ball joint 'outwards', which is making more "positive" camber. (sort of squaring the tyre up to the ground if u can picture).. Note how long these bolts are.... This is how far the control arms can be moved outward.... Mine had to be moved out that far that the locknuts are just on by a couple of threads!!!! There is another method to rectify this issue too, and that is the fitting of "camber kits", which allow adjustment by Cam method, rather than spacers..... But very expensive, I think.. Also take note how little amount of room there is to work in this area..... Reason for labour intensive work.... And the reason why many alignment guys (not all ) don't get it right... Their shop methods don't allow the time to be spent,,, (Sell the tyres, on sell a w/align, get it out and onto the net one!!!!!!) Nature of the supermarket tyre shop.... And then the tyres wear quicker and so u are back to get another set and around it goes again.....
Well thats about as short as I can make it,,, And I don't say this is the standard of all w/aligners, but again, they either have not been taught or aren't allowed the time required or don't take the time to investigate and solve the issues...... Thats where I was pretty lucky to be put onto a specialist and have a great alignment done....
Sorry,,,, but can't agree completely with your opinions on lowering or fitting bull bars either......
So,,, as u can see with mine having to be moved so far, that any wonder my tyres were so badly and oddly worn.... My aligner says this is a common problem but many people don't realise because they don't (or are unable) to check the very inner edge of the tyre...... just like Jims tyres......
No problems XR84JD, dont take your advice as rude at all. Im still learning heaps.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, hope it helps Jim47!
allignment and type pressure problem. thats all.
many people do wheel allignments. but very few do a good wheel allignment.
Isn't it good when everything just works!!
thanks for all the replies.
tyre size: 215/60R16
why does it say 30psi on the label in the glove box?
would this be covered under warranty? where do i find a specialised wheel aligner in adelaide? cost?
2007, BF mk2, 6 cyl, ute
40,000km (original tyres)
I have just one comment besides all the others, buy a real good quality pressure guage and tyre pump and check the pressures at home when the tyres are cool
Hi Jim, good advice from the guys, we tow a van with our BF and in Katherine recently found we arrived with steel showing on the rears.
Tyre pressures and wheel alignments are certainly the issue. Whether loaded or not, we need to run these cars on the max tyre pressures, I use 36psi on the front, and 40psi on the rears, whether towing or not.
Fords, for as long as I can remember, (back when the earth was still cooling) have always under stated tyre pressures, I assume to get a soft ride, which may be OK in the big city, but out in the real world we need better than that.
After having new Bridgestones fitted in Katherine the guy who did the wheel alignments advised me of two things, the rear diff bushes need regular checking, as they wear and allow movement which causes tyre scrubbing (mine were OK, thankfully) and when doing the alignments the car needs to be sitting at the level it will be at when travelling. ie, full fuel tank, boot full of junk, whatever, but as the guys have said, it comes back to finding a competent wheel alignment specialist.
Our BF has rear suspension air bags which I adjust according to load, that helps prevent severe bouncing and scrubbing, I hadn't had them pumped up enough, which allowed the rears to scrub from the constant camber changes, and the fronts, I think just alter from driving, ours needed some shims on the left side.
The specialists tell me we should do a full alignment at least every 10k, or sooner, depending on the roads we travel, and it's been my experience that the tyre places seem to be the ones who know how to do it, but I'd give them the old third degree before handing the job over to them.
Pedders are renowned, also, but realise they are franchises, and only as good as the guys who lease them. It pays to shop around.
Hope you get it sorted out OK,
I run my tires low purely for comfort factor. i was told to increase pressure to improve handling. it did, but the roads around here are too rough, so i went back to a lower setting. thereby saving my spine.
Reality is a nice place, but i wouldn't want to live there!
My ride: BF Falcon XR8 ute
G'day aussiemuscle, on our beaut roads in QLD I can identify with what you say, but at lower pressures the tyres are flexing more, possibly overheating and could blow out.
The NRMA say that the correct tyre pressure is when after a long run the pressure does not build up more than 4psi from what you put in them cold.
If you have a good reliable pressure gauge that you use for cold tyre pressures, if you try it again after a good long fast run, see how much the pressure has built up.
That, apparently is the best way to determine correct tyre pressures.
If the hot pressure is more than 4psi above the cold, they are not pumped up tight enough.
My experience, after years as a company country rep and now a Nomad, is to run radials at the max recommended pressure.
Your BF sounds like one mean machine, not bad wheels are they?
Happy travels mate.
I've got the same problem. These tyres were fitted new three months ago and have done 30,000km.
Shortly after they were fitted I had a wheel alignment done at a major tyre chain. Now I know that they didn't do the job properly.
I went back there today and showed them the car. They were adamant that the camber is not adjustable on BF Falcons. They told me to go to a nearby workshop and get a quote for a camber adjustment kit to be fitted. I didn't know enough about this stuff at the time to call BS.
I asked about the pull to the left at the time and was told it was just natural wear of the car.
Now I know a bit more about wheel alignment and where to go next time. For now I'll be getting it done at Wilkinson Suspension Centre ASAP.
I'll be putting onto a web site photos of the tyres and the shop that did the "alignment" in the near future.
One of the main lessons that I've learned is that there are wheel alignments and there are wheel alignments. Some places do a crap job and some places do it properly.
I also now know to put the steering on full lock and check the tyres properly on a regular basis. I didn't know about these tyres being so stuffed until a thumping noise developed, which turned out to be a bit of tyre rubber bouncing around the place.
To really make my day, no one has my preferred tyres in stock here in Perth right now, so I've got to wait a week until some get sent over from Melbourne.
any clown can say they do wheel allignments. but i recon there are about 6 ppl in sydney that do them properly.
.... if they just drive the car on the hoist and do the allignment.... DONT PAY
.... if they look at ur tyres and say u need a camber kit....... DRIVE AWAY
.... if they look at your tyres and say u need $800 to replace all the front bushes.... DRIVE AWAY
.... if they dont physically and visually check your suspension and steering before they do the allignment.... DONT USE THEM
u shouldnt need a camber kit unless the camber is actually out... usually from an accident. If they dont check the allignment there is no way of knowing the camber angles are wrong. most workshops will just want to fit u a camber kit coz they make $$$$$ from it even if u dont need it.
find a good guy and stick with them.
anyone know where Jerry the indian guy that was at Beaurepares smithfield is gone to?? he was the ultimate.
Isn't it good when everything just works!!
Thanks Phildo...... I was going to post some pics of my new tyres since i wrote a bit about this exact same issue some time back..... and so here they are..
AND I AM STILL SINGING THE PRAISES OF THE NEXEN N6000.... Every coon should have em fitted.... (no... I don't work for or sell Nexen tyres)
**side note...have fitted them to the wifes Subby too, and there just as good...
These have now done 10k km, and I will now rotate them to the rears...
Note the inside edge of these.... exact same wear as the outside edge.. and you can see the wear indicators are the same.... The last image is the rear tyre so u can see how square it is running to the road also, as this was also a major part of the wheel alignment, adjusting the rear end squareness, for want of better terminology
As I said previously, my W/Aligner put in 16 shims in the upper control arms for camber adjustment..... He said this was about the maximum, anymore and I would have to fit a camber kit..... So good on u for trusting your instincts and not copping the BS.....
If you look on the inside of the strut tower (in the engine bay) you can see the 2 (2 front, 2 rear) mount bolts of the upper C/arm. if there is heaps of thread sticking thru, then you have plenty of room for it to be shimmed out correctly..... If its a Boss motor, u will also see why u will pay about 3-4 hrs labour to fit the shims
At the end of the day... IT NEEDS TO BE DONE BY A PROFESSIONAL, WHO KNOWS HOW TO SHIM IT CORRECTLY..
As we are learning (slowly)... DO NOT HAVE IT DONE AT THE FRANCHISED TYRE STORE....
And I am 100% in agreeance with Bass..... on all those points.....
My major, major concern, is that there could be who knows how many people driving around on tyres like yours (and mine where) without even knowing how close the tyre is to "BLOWING OUT"..... I'm sure ours where not far from a tragedy.....
I know this design of front end has been on the Coons for a while, but surely Ford needs to be aware before (if it hasn't been the cause of an accident already) and they should set the alignment, WITH SHIMS< when the car is built.....
Sorry for the length of post, but I think this is a very important issue and ALL Falcon drivers need to be aware, to check the very inside edges BEFORE the blow out.....
As Phildo said, until u turn it on full lock, u don't see the wear....
If u want to drive over to Sydney, I can send u over to "AXIS TRUCK REPAIRS, MCGRATHS HILL..... (near Windsor)
Thats..... "AXIS TRUCK REPAIRS, MCGRATHS HILL..... (near Windsor)
Cheers all....... JD
What size and price were the Nexeons??
One thing I have found with the FG is that the Dunlops on the FG wear heaps better than previous dunlops.
Ford Told me to run at 40psi all the time or end up chewing tyres like I had with my previous Falcon.
The Ford Guy even said he had someone swearing by 45psi.
His top tip was pump the bloody things up.
I think Bob jane and the likes even write 32psi on the book when you buy them, well throw that away orr you will be back there in a few months because the edges are chewed out
The tyres are "Nexen N6000 235/45 ZR17".....
I paid $145 at Jax....... Unbelievable value, in my humble opinion
But don't get Jax to do the alignment.... I paid $350 odd for the alignment, but more than happy with that...... No sign of inner edge wear, at all
that is a classic problem of negative toe wear, many aligners set the vehicle to specs which does not always work. vehicle should be set with the dynamics of the vehicle taken into consideration. the aligner should press the inside front of the wheels out while on the aligner and what ever degree comes on screen that amount should be compensated for.
Last edited by ramsey; 17-03-2011 at 06:11 PM. Reason: spelling mistake
like i said on another tyre wear issue, that problem is caused by to much negative toe and ill explain why. as the vehicle is travelling down the road the friction of the road is forcing the two front wheels to toe out this movement must be compensated for no matter what vehicle it is. most aligners set to specs which is hardly ever correct. ( live specs should be read while on alignment machine, then the two from wheels should be force out(negative toe) by hand. what ever reading you get on top of original reading should be added to the first reading. also on falcons etc tyres should be run at 40 psi any lower tyres will flex to much which equates to to much heat which equals to much wear. most unexperienced aligners will say camber........ but that information is incorrect to get that type of wear if it were camber the wheel would have to be at a greater angle the 45 degrees which just does not happen. falcons should be set to approx 10 to 12 mins positive toe in per side. there are 60 mins to a degree. your aligner should know what im talking about. this angle will compensate for outward friction caused by the road.
Last edited by ramsey; 17-03-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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