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  1. #76
    Lion Eyes. Redwight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    More probable that they don't want to get their heads out of the sand, there is no practical gain from scaremongering against Russia for America as they couldn't effectively fight them without the dreaded N word being a very likely scenario.

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    Forum Veteran Lyonsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    http://rt.com/business/175508-ukrain...tern-naftogaz/
    interesting acrticle from ukraine parliment

    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.co...ainian-fiasco/

    ukraineisstarting to stink of iraqi vietnam all over again even have american miltary advisers there to help train troops
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    http://www.theautomaticearth.com/fri...nnan-fraid-so/
    ”I was particularly bothered by the references to Russia as a country dying to attack Western Europe. Don’t people understand?

    Our differences in the cold war were with the Soviet Communist regime. And now we are turning our backs on the very people who mounted the greatest bloodless revolution in history to remove that Soviet regime.

    ”And Russia’s democracy is as far advanced, if not farther, as any of these countries we’ve just signed up to defend from Russia,” said Mr. Kennan, who joined the State Department in 1926 and was U.S. Ambassador to Moscow in 1952. ”It shows so little understanding of Russian history and Soviet history.

    Of course there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say that we always told you that is how the Russians are – but this is just wrong.”

    One only wonders what future historians will say. If we are lucky they will say that NATO expansion to Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic simply didn’t matter, because the vacuum it was supposed to fill had already been filled, only the Clinton team couldn’t see it.
    paying for past mistakes from the 90's when russia was on its knee's ripe for an kgb operative to take over due to frustration from acts like the nato expension.
    and now trying to get back the old russian empire/ussr boarder states to put a cushion around the mother country to shelter the country
    Last edited by Lyonsy; 09-08-2014 at 12:10 AM.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyonsy View Post
    http://www.theautomaticearth.com/fri...nnan-fraid-so/


    paying for past mistakes from the 90's when russia was on its knee's ripe for an kgb operative to take over due to frustration from acts like the nato expension.
    and now trying to get back the old russian empire/ussr boarder states to put a cushion around the mother country to shelter the country
    Lets hope the CIA have developed a 'anti-Putin' of their own ranks- which Im sure they have.
    Payback since 1956 is long overdue. I have been warning of a KGB revival since 1997
    and the pollies only listen when civilian airliners get blasted out the sky at the whim
    of the Kremlin to prove a Cold Hard fact. The dissidents are many and lets hope
    they get more airtime than those closet ultra leftists in the press and financial
    institutions who are Putins 'useful idiots'. Yuri Bereznov is another operative showing
    how they infiltrate certain groups when such groups are not even tolerated back
    home...yes Lyonsy Putin wants 'revenge' for 1991 maybe somebody here
    wants revenge for 2008...

    Then we have China mollycodling our political and business leaders and doing the
    same things Russia was doing to Europe before they all of a sudden got 'aggressive'.
    Im sure the Japanese/Taiwanese are well aware of this 'soft targeting' done before
    a full blown attack like in the Ukraine. China wants aircraft carriers wow a very
    'peaceful nation'. Russia/China economic/political/military alliance should be sending alarm bells
    in Canberra/London/Berlin/Washington for a rapid change of course. Reminds me
    of Japan/Germanies alliance before a particular war...and how mutually helpful
    each one was to each other...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 09-08-2014 at 09:10 AM.



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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyonsy View Post
    http://rt.com/business/175508-ukrain...tern-naftogaz/
    interesting acrticle from ukraine parliment

    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.co...ainian-fiasco/

    ukraineisstarting to stink of iraqi vietnam all over again even have american miltary advisers there to help train troops
    Im sure the CIA has learned its lessons from past wars and knows psy-ops since Afghanistan/Iraq is complicated
    and everychanging and thats what helps also the distaste Ukrainians have for Putin and ilk at large. Vietnam
    however was a different war with a corrupt and indifferent South and a more disciplined North however its
    the rebels who lack cohesion here and that why Russia is sending more troops fighting a loosing war
    as now they are turning on their own people...Im told stories of Russian soldiers shooting deserters
    and those who fail to 'shape up' in battle even this has failed to turn the tide...looting/drug use and lack
    of discipline is common and not very soldierly...even the locals feel uncomfortable with them....

    RT is Russian properganda and the Ukrainans are doing their very best to purge Kremlin sympathisers
    apart from their Kremlin mouthpiece their calls are not only falling on deaf ears but hardening their resolve...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 09-08-2014 at 07:25 AM.

  6. #81
    Forum Veteran Lyonsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    it all seems to mean to be anther energy war russia had there puppet eading ukraine then west got there puppet in so russia decided it wants to take certain parts of the ukraine.
    with the parts they have gained are they miltary strong points for defending the country from invasion same as the nazi's did to czechoslovakia before then invading and taking the whole country later on.

    iam also unsure why the price of oil hasent jumped all this fighiting around the world would normaly mean massive spike in oil cost yet there has been noneand even drops soething is not being revealed atm imo
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyonsy View Post
    it all seems to mean to be anther energy war russia had there puppet eading ukraine then west got there puppet in so russia decided it wants to take certain parts of the ukraine.
    with the parts they have gained are they miltary strong points for defending the country from invasion same as the nazi's did to czechoslovakia before then invading and taking the whole country later on.

    iam also unsure why the price of oil hasent jumped all this fighiting around the world would normaly mean massive spike in oil cost yet there has been noneand even drops soething is not being revealed atm imo
    Spot on Lyonsy remember that set piece from "yes minister' about Salami tactics. Yes Im sure the Ukrainians
    are on to this as well and are giving the Russian army and their derranged cohorts a very hard time indeed.
    Its also a wake up call in Eastern Europe to take defence and counter-intelligence very damn seriously.
    Notice how the Russian media is attacking the Ukrainian government so hard they are panicking they
    are loosing their psy-ops operation and now their operatives will soon be rounded up as traitors...
    Russian and (anythng Russian for that matter) petrol stations are becoming very unpopular in Eastern Europe-
    bad memories I guess...

    The price of oil- my Shiekh folks are keeping check on that and don't mind ISIS being exterminated.
    Oil crisis is only a term used for 'political crisis' rather than any shortage of oil- lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4
    How to subvert a nation- 101- never see this in very, very few universities- lol
    Enjoy the Gulag coming to a city near you otherwise...or a cheap Russian bullet.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 09-08-2014 at 09:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redwight View Post
    More probable that they don't want to get their heads out of the sand, there is no practical gain from scaremongering against Russia for America as they couldn't effectively fight them without the dreaded N word being a very likely scenario.
    Their panicking so hard in the Kremlin their going to get cancer. If Russia uses nukes America will- game over.
    The use or threat of using nuclear weapons is a sign of desperation rather than any military outcome apart from suicide.
    You never see the Americans ever going on camera making such threats as they would be extremely counter-productive...
    Im sure some Russian leaders would eliminate such nutcases from the chain of command like we would. Its the King
    on the chess table and as you know the King rarely moves...and is questioned by COC if there orders get too 'nutty'
    and threaten their control. Putin is gambling too much on the routlette table on the Ukraine and im sure some Russian generals
    may soon question his sanity just like German Generals did with Hitler and began disobeying orders to save their
    troops for another day with a more fitting leader...his ego is cashing cheques he cannot buy.

    Redright to be honest Id rather be more worried about the 'Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty' being abandoned in 2006
    as a precursor to the attacks on Georgia+Ukraine instead and elsewhere. Far more plausible...and the Budapest Memorandum...

    https://www.armscontrol.org/print/2078

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/ma...-kasparov.html
    Golf is for chatting- chess is for real players in the game...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 09-08-2014 at 09:04 AM.

  9. #84
    Experienced Member falconxh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    .... the cows will come home to pasture.


    “Even in political speeches,” Kasparov told me, “people always ask you chess questions. You can’t escape from that. The question I always received at almost any performance, any lecture, any appearance: Does chess help you in your political activities?” Kasparov then parsed the question, taking it apart like a difficult position, correcting each flawed premise and formulating a countermove. “I say, first of all, it was not political but more like human rights,” he said. “But the answer to your question is no, since in chess we have fixed rules and unpredictable results. And in Russia, it is exactly the opposite.”

    The story of the old bull and the young bull. A young bull and an old bull are standing atop a hill when they note a herd of cows has ambled home to pasture. "Hey look at that", says the young bull with some enthusiasm, "lets race down there and shag a coupla of those nice cows!" "Nah", says the old bull in reply, "lets take our time and go down and do 'em all".


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    Forum Veteran Lyonsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    anther interesting read but its anther energy war

    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.co...other-big-lie/

    Imperial Washington is truly running amuck in its insensible confrontation with Vladimir Putin. The pending round of new sanctions is a counter-productive joke. Apparently, more of Vlad’s posse will be put on double probation, thereby reducing demand for Harry Macklowe’s swell new $60 million apartment units on Park Avenue. Likewise, American exporters of high tech oilfield equipment will be shot in the foot with an embargo; and debt-saturated Russian state companies will be denied the opportunity to bury themselves even deeper in dollar debt by borrowing on the New York bond market. Some real wet noodles, these! But it is the larger narrative that is so blatantly offensive—that is, the notion that a sovereign state is being wantonly violated by an aggressive neighbor arming “terrorists” inside its borders. Obama’s deputy national security advisor, Tony Blanken, stated that specious meme in stark form yesterday:

    “Russia bears responsibility for everything that’s going on in Eastern Ukraine” and “has the ability to actually de-escalate this crisis,” Blinken said.

    Puleese! The Kiev government is a dysfunctional, bankrupt usurper that is deploying western taxpayer money to wage a vicious war on several million Russian-speaking citizens in the Donbas—-the traditional center of greater Russia’s coal, steel and industrial infrastructure. It is geographically part of present day Ukraine by historical happenstance. For better or worse, it was Stalin who financed its forced draft industrialization during the 1930s; populated it with Russian speakers to insure political reliability; and expelled the Nazi occupiers at immeasurable cost in blood and treasure during WWII. Indeed, the Donbas and Russia have been Saimese twins economically and politically not merely for decades, but centuries.

    On the other hand, Kiev’s marauding army and militias would come to an instant halt without access to the $35 billion of promised aid from the IMF, EU and US treasury. Obama just needs to say “stop”. That’s it. The civil war would quickly end, permitting the US, Russia and the warring parties of the Ukraine to hold a peace conference and work out the details of a separation agreement. After all, what is so sacrosanct about preserving the territorial integrity of the Ukraine? Ever since the middle ages, it has consisted of a set of meandering borders in search of a nation that never existed owing to endemic ethnic, tribal and religious differences. Its modern boundaries are merely the fruit of 20th century wars and the expediencies of a totalitarian state during the decades of its rise, rule and disintegration.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyonsy View Post
    anther interesting read but its anther energy war

    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.co...other-big-lie/

    Imperial Washington is truly running amuck in its insensible confrontation with Vladimir Putin. The pending round of new sanctions is a counter-productive joke. Apparently, more of Vlad’s posse will be put on double probation, thereby reducing demand for Harry Macklowe’s swell new $60 million apartment units on Park Avenue. Likewise, American exporters of high tech oilfield equipment will be shot in the foot with an embargo; and debt-saturated Russian state companies will be denied the opportunity to bury themselves even deeper in dollar debt by borrowing on the New York bond market. Some real wet noodles, these! But it is the larger narrative that is so blatantly offensive—that is, the notion that a sovereign state is being wantonly violated by an aggressive neighbor arming “terrorists” inside its borders. Obama’s deputy national security advisor, Tony Blanken, stated that specious meme in stark form yesterday:

    “Russia bears responsibility for everything that’s going on in Eastern Ukraine” and “has the ability to actually de-escalate this crisis,” Blinken said.

    Puleese! The Kiev government is a dysfunctional, bankrupt usurper that is deploying western taxpayer money to wage a vicious war on several million Russian-speaking citizens in the Donbas—-the traditional center of greater Russia’s coal, steel and industrial infrastructure. It is geographically part of present day Ukraine by historical happenstance. For better or worse, it was Stalin who financed its forced draft industrialization during the 1930s; populated it with Russian speakers to insure political reliability; and expelled the Nazi occupiers at immeasurable cost in blood and treasure during WWII. Indeed, the Donbas and Russia have been Saimese twins economically and politically not merely for decades, but centuries.

    On the other hand, Kiev’s marauding army and militias would come to an instant halt without access to the $35 billion of promised aid from the IMF, EU and US treasury. Obama just needs to say “stop”. That’s it. The civil war would quickly end, permitting the US, Russia and the warring parties of the Ukraine to hold a peace conference and work out the details of a separation agreement. After all, what is so sacrosanct about preserving the territorial integrity of the Ukraine? Ever since the middle ages, it has consisted of a set of meandering borders in search of a nation that never existed owing to endemic ethnic, tribal and religious differences. Its modern boundaries are merely the fruit of 20th century wars and the expediencies of a totalitarian state during the decades of its rise, rule and disintegration.
    sounds like the Red press material- yes Putin will stop yes sure he will...roll over Budapest and Prague again.
    Those ultra leftists are getting desperate. Putin has plenty of rich dalchas and *****s aplenty to satisfy him
    and make our flawed yet not infallible democratic system look quite tame. Another leftist turd who never
    lived in Russia either pretending about a paradise that does not exist. They ignore the fact that Russia
    took over the Crimea and the Budapest Memorandum is non existentent so any guise that Putin is somehow
    good is a dangerous misnomer. Their will be no peace in Europe until Putin and his friends are gone and
    his ultra-leftist friends in the West are dissected politically, demoralised and mentally destroyed from their
    life source just like in 1991 but this time permanently. China is also a financial life source now to
    Russia now that American sanctions are in place...so its much more complicated.

    A energy war- the West has a major joint share the Middle East- Russia has Syria and does not control much there anymore.
    The gas pipelines will soon be a thing of the past when Keystone to Gorgon come online and Russia can
    keep its dirty oil and gas to itself. Ukraine succeeded because it hated Putin. The EU is in a political mess
    and financially as the banking and political system is disorganised due to its leadership. Despite this it
    seems it has 35 billion Russia does not have. Must make their political system even more poorly run
    than ours hey Lyonsy? He is businessman who probably deals with the Russians and Chinese and
    like many is very nervous about his money evaporating or being 'seized' by the very people he
    supports, oh the irony. He should move there if he likes it so much and stop rubbishing the country
    that protects him sprouting such pro Russian bull****. In Russia/China he would have been carted off
    by the secret police long ago- doing the same thing.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 09-08-2014 at 01:52 PM.

  12. #87
    Forum Veteran Lyonsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    i cant see russia stoping but the reason they are there is the energy being coal and steel sector, once they had that then would then work on the rest of the country
    putin wont stop but ukraine can only fight on borrowed money.

    the sanctions that are being put inplace on russia wont hurt it anywhere near as much as it will hurt the euro zone and the fact that putin can throttle the gas back and let the euro's fight amungst them selfs for whats left while still rataining profit margin
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyonsy View Post
    i cant see russia stoping but the reason they are there is the energy being coal and steel sector, once they had that then would then work on the rest of the country
    putin wont stop but ukraine can only fight on borrowed money.

    the sanctions that are being put inplace on russia wont hurt it anywhere near as much as it will hurt the euro zone and the fact that putin can throttle the gas back and let the euro's fight amungst them selfs for whats left while still rataining profit margin
    The Europeans will probably ring up the Yanks and ask for a few financial 'help me outs' to get the economies going again
    and soon enough they will be singing the praises of the US of A instead of rubbishing it at every oppotunity- otherwise
    the Fulda Gap would have fallen long ago and they would be speaking Russian mostly. Talk about forgetting about
    your real friends instead of those who want to stab you in the back at every opportunity. If Russian investment
    was so good for Europe then why is the unemployment rate so painfully high and why is the Eurozone in
    a perpetual mess back in the 90's it had far more strength...reminds me of the downsides of Chinese
    investment in Australia and the associated problems not dissimilar...globalisation is one big pain in
    the you know where when you aid and abet others at the expense of your own countries and traditional
    allies which is why China/Russia alliance is strong- at the moment anyway...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 09-08-2014 at 02:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    They have had enough Putin has abandoned them- no longer useful pieces in his chess
    game anymore. I hope the Ukraine army checks the sincerity of the people of Donesk surrender
    and treat them fairly and with humility. It will show a humane Ukraine rather than a
    maneavolent Russia stirring trouble wherever it goes. Lets show the Ukrainian people
    don't hate the Russians as much as the Russians hate their own people. My grandfather
    served on the outskirts of Stalingrad and it was a mindless slaughter on both sides.
    Let Donesk be a example of brotherly relations between Ukrainians & real Russians.
    Let Ukraine rebuild and outpace Russia in more ways than one. Ukraine had suffered
    terribly under Russian hands and let us not drink from the cup of revenge would
    make us any better than our true enemy- of both- sitting in the Kremlin scheming
    his next plan. Ukraine is rich in oil/gas and is the breadbasket of Europe so its
    people need to be back on their feet again- yet have a eye on Russian intentions
    all the same- weather- benign to saboteur like...



    quote-
    A top separatist leader on Saturday admitted that Ukrainian forces had surrounded Donetsk, the stronghold of Russian-backed rebels, and called for a cease-fire on humanitarian grounds.
    "We are ready for a cease-fire in order to avert the humanitarian catastrophe growing," Alexander Zakharchenko, prime minister of the self-styled Donetsk People's Republic, said in a statement posted on a rebel website, according to the Associated Press and AFP news agency. Igor Girkin, a top commander of the pro-Russia militants, also acknowledged Saturday that Donetsk was surrounded and conceded that Ukrainian troops had gotten the upper hand in eastern Ukraine after four months of fighting.

    The appeal by Zakharchenko comes as Russia is pressing to send a humanitarian convoy into Ukraine to parts of the besieged eastern regions, an offer that the Ukrainian government has labeled a ploy to cover a military invasion. Although Western countries says Moscow has assembled about 20,000 troops just across the border, Russia has denied it. Zakharchenko — who took over as prime minister of the DPR last week — warned that rebels were determined the defend Donestk if Ukrainian forces tried to capture the city of 1 million people.

    "The fight will be for every street, for every house, for every meter of our land," Zakharchenko said, and would turn the city into a new "Stalingrad," a reference to the Soviet Union's refusal to surrender the city of Stalingrad to the Nazis during World War II. Zakharchenko acknowledged that the situation was "difficult and tense" but said "the troops' morale is strong," the AFP news agency reports.
    A spokesman for the Donetsk city administration said at least one person was killed and several injured in shelling of the city's southern area on Saturday. Spokesman Maxim Rovninsky also told the AP that about 30 apartment blocks came under fire during the night. Explosions were also heard Saturday on the northern outskirts near the city's airport. Ukrainian officials denied that they are shelling civilians.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...nded/13821629/

    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 10-08-2014 at 02:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Cynical Russian ***** (everything is a conspiracy against Russia) and a Ukrainian honey.
    Those Russians need to behave themselves on national TV as the look bad to foreign
    viewers or those who can understand the Russian language, social mores also the more
    decent members of their society replaced by trolls everywhere. Their trollishness
    is catching up with them as well as their peace overtures are rather false. They
    are very poor losers and behave worse than a Argentine going on the rampage
    after loosing a winnable soccer match. Their foreign trolls are very predictable
    as well. Troll away Russia to financial, social and economic oblivion.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28706461
    quote-
    Russian state TV's coverage of the crisis has been consistently sensationalist, using a wide repertoire of propaganda techniques to incite revulsion and hostility towards the authorities in Kiev. Television in Ukraine has fastened on the role of the Kremlin and decries Russian media "lies", though with less emotive language than Moscow-based channels. 'Fascists' A constant refrain of Russian TV's reporting of the Ukraine crisis has been its attempts to equate the current authorities in Kiev and their supporters with fascists. One of the ways they have done this is to brand them as banderovtsy, followers of controversial Ukrainian nationalist and wartime partisan leader Stepan Bandera.

    http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
    Is that troll under the bridge speaking Russian? Don't feed the trolls let the trolls turn on themselves
    for trollish delight....The head troll is named Vladamir and I think he hates himself like all trolls.
    His wife abandoned him as his trollishness was too much for her to tolerate. So he decided to
    troll on his own.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28736058
    Do aliens play chess? Well when you look at the grand scheme of things and what has sorted out
    decisions on what stays and what goes and how he took on a computer and won Im sure
    that he has the wisdom and foresight and other forces helping him out against a Russian
    who has more bad vibes than well I won't say. The problem with negativity is that you
    can be so negative you fail to see the good in anything except a closed belief system.
    Even a Terminator has respect for its foe- arrogance would have removed Skynet long ago.
    I myself am a realist as I can see both good and bad and come to a agreeable conclusion
    or I shall- well I won't say.

    http://hairulovchessmaniacs.blogspot...-kasparov.html
    Carlsen is Kasparov's protégé a skire and a gentleman. Yes I don't like psychiatry very
    much but psychology is more balanced. To get into the mind of your opponent is
    half the match won already. The biggest chess match in the known universe?
    Im sure many will be tuning in.

    quote-
    The showdown with fellow-Russian Kirsan Ilyumzhinov will take place on the sidelines
    of the Chess Olympiad in the Norwegian Arctic city of Tromso.

    Mr Ilyumzhinov has been head of the World Chess Federation for 19 years.
    However, his critics accuse him of being a Kremlin puppet with ties to brutal dictators.
    Mr Kasparov, 51, is a noted human rights campaigner and an opponent of Russia's President Vladimir Putin.

    Kasparov's critics in Russia & the West are Putin trolls the more venomous they
    are the more 'obvious' they are. I hope Garry shows the power of the 'force'
    can overcome any obstacle...anger can make you blind.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 11-08-2014 at 04:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Anger is one letter short of danger.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...



    Anger should have its energies 'channelled' like Buddhism/Christianity and other religions teach-
    righteous rage however is something different...and much more frightening.
    Help those out in need but no need for military convoys when the Red Cross
    is helping out. Mastery of the force are able to channel their rage metaphysically
    to anything or everything- though if not used wisely has a tendency for boomeranging
    back- or hitting unintended targets instead- often creating far more problems then
    the wielder expected...

    quote-
    But the Buddha said that no one can make us angry if the seed of anger is not in our hearts. The truth is, we all have some anger in us. Even the Dalai Lama says he gets angry as does the Vietnamese Zen master and peace activist Thich Nhat Hanh. The difference is that these two sages know what to do with their anger. Intense angry feelings don't automatically become unhealthy or destructive or drive negative actions.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...akout-24926814

    quote-
    Ukrainian forces on Monday zeroed in on rebel strongholds as the government welcomed an international humanitarian relief mission into the rebellious east involving Russia, the United States and the European Union.

    The mission will be conducted under the auspices of the International Committee of the Red Cross. The organization said in a statement it is ready to facilitate the operation with the involvement of all sides concerned following a Russian initiative to provide humanitarian assistance to people in eastern Ukraine.

    It wasn't clear when the deliveries would start.

    "The practical details of this operation need to be clarified before this initiative can move forward," said Laurent Corbaz, the ICRC's head of operations for Europe and Central Asia.

    Moscow had long urged Kiev to allow the aid delivery, but Ukraine and the West previously had opposed the move, fearing that it could serve as a pretext for sending Russian troops into rebel-held territory. Ukraine and the West have accused Moscow of arming and supporting the rebels fighting government troops in the east, a charge that the Kremlin has denied.

    The Red Cross said it has shared a document with Ukrainian and Russian authorities that stipulates all parties must guarantee the security of its staff during the operation and respect the organization's neutrality.

    The aid mission was announced after a conversation between U.S. President Barack Obama and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko Monday.

    The White House said that Obama and Poroshenko agreed that "any Russian intervention in Ukraine without the formal, express consent and authorization of the Ukraine government would be unacceptable and a violation of international law."

    Shortly before that, Russia had declared that it was dispatching a humanitarian convoy into Ukraine in cooperation with the Red Cross without giving any details. President Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, later was quoted by Russian news wires as saying that the convoy wouldn't involve and military personnel.

    or any in disguise...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...paratists.html
    A soldier does not hide behind a mask- The SS murdered Ukrainian as well- as Hitlers racial policies
    were quite looney for whites even had a pecking order. Alois Schickegruber strikes again...
    Bandera fought against both- tearing Ukraine into little shreds.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 12-08-2014 at 09:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    War clouds gather over Poland. Zhirinovsky says Poland and Baltic states risk being “wiped out” in the
    escalating conflict over Ukraine. Passivity is a human weakness after all and to be exploited for those
    who know no better. Putin sizes up his next target of opportunity.

    http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/1...-Putin-advisor

    quote-
    “They will be wiped out. Nothing will remain there. The heads of these dwarf states should think who they are,” Zhirinovsky, a deputy speaker of Russia's lower house of parliament (Duma) said in an astonishing outburst on the state-backed Russia 24 TV channel station on Monday.
    The 65 year-old leader of the nationalist Liberal Democratic Party of Russia, an opposition politician who is seen as a close ally of the Kremlin, said that the fate of Eastern Europe is in the hands of one man, Vladimir Putin.
    “All questions of war and peace in general and in particular those relating to Ukraine will be solved by one person, the head of the Russian Federation,” he said.
    “The Baltic States and Poland are doomed. They will be wiped out. Nothing will remain there,” Zhirinovsky said.
    On attempts by Polish and other CEE leaders to beef up NATO's defences in the region, the politician, often described as “controversial but charismatic” appeared to predict World War III.
    “Of course, nothing threatens America, because it is far away, but Eastern European countries risk being destroyed completely. This is their fault, because we cannot accept planes and missiles to be launched into Russia from their territories. We need to destroy them 30 minutes before the launch.”
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 13-08-2014 at 06:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    "F'n A." Yank figure of speech.

    A verbis ad verbera (L.), from words to blows.

    &

    Ave, imperator, morituri te salutant! (L.), hail, emperor, men doomed to die salute thee!
    [said by gladiators]


    "With up to 45,000 Russian troops amassed on Ukraine's border, a Kremlin statement said that Russia, “in collaboration with representatives of the International Committee of the Red Cross, is sending an aid convoy to Ukraine”.

    President Obama warned Moscow, however, that delivering aid should not be a pretext to invasion.

    Jose Manuel Barroso, president of the European Commission, warned President Putin in a telephone conversation “against any unilateral military actions in Ukraine, under any pretext, including humanitarian," the Commission said in a statement.

    According to the UN, over 1,100 people have been killed including government forces, rebels and civilians in the four months since the separatists seized territory in the east of Ukraine and the Kiev government launched its “anti-terrorist” crackdown, with thousands internally displaced.

    Kiev says it is in the "final stages" of recapturing the eastern city of Donetsk, in a battle that could mark a turning point in a conflict that has caused the biggest confrontation between Russia and the West since the Cold War. (pg)

    source: IAR/Reuters

    - See more at: http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/178609,Poland-is-doomed-says-Putin-advisor#sthash.7ruGV51k.dpuf"


    "And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years". Abraham Lincoln

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Looks like the trucks have turned around and vanished not so Red Cross afterall. Probably judging
    by the size of the trucks you could more than fit a platoon of troops with plenty of supplies, small
    artillery, heavy weapons and AA stuff as well. Does Putin have a sensible bone in his body
    or is he a great cynicist and opportunist at large? Don't there was much food or medical
    aid for the besieged people of Donesk- just another pawn in his game. His useful idiots
    in the West give mixed messages about him who im sure many are asking about their
    intentions as well...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti..._campaign=1490
    Snowden does not support your freedoms he supports oppression by the FSB.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...o-Ukraine.html

    quote-
    Ukraine accused Moscow of mounting a cynical attempt to incite a pro-Russian rebellion on Wednesday, as uncertainty surrounded a 262-truck "aid convoy" that appeared to grind to a halt before reaching the border. The stand-off came as violence worsened in eastern Ukraine, with the United Nations announcing that the death toll in the four-month conflict had doubled in the past two weeks to more than 2,000. Government forces are seeking to press their advantage against the pro-Russian rebels, which has stoked fears that the aid convoy is part of a Russian plan to fend off the rebels' seemingly inevitable defeat. "The level of Russian cynicism knows no bounds," said Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the Ukrainian prime minister. "First they send tanks, Grad missiles and bandits who fire on Ukrainians – and then they send water and salt." Arsen Avakov, Ukraine's interior minister, had said the "Putinist" convoy would not pass, calling it a "provocation by a cynical aggressor".

    The convoy, which departed from an army base near Moscow on Tuesday, appeared to vanish yesterday, adding to confusion surrounding the route and purpose of the cargo. Last seen in the city of Voronezh, 300 miles south of Moscow, on Tuesday, the convoy never reached the border near the Russian city of Belgorod that the Russian foreign ministry said it would use. Rumours that the convoy had headed south from Voronezh to cross the border directly into rebel-held territory – a move that would be viewed by Kiev as tantamount to a declaration of war – could not be substantiated.
    Russian state television initially reported the convoy to be en route to Belgorod. But journalists waiting at the Pletenivka checkpoint, on the Ukrainian side of the border where Russia had said the convoy would cross, saw no sign of the vehicles.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 14-08-2014 at 01:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    quote-
    By sending the convoy south, Russia appears intent on not abiding by an earlier tentative agreement to deliver the aid to a Ukraine government-controlled crossing in the Kharkiv region, where it could be inspected by the Red Cross. Instead, the trucks will most likely cross into Ukraine in the Luhansk region, where much of the border is rebel-controlled.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine...city-1.2736068

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    We shall the see the quality of his intentions...weather pure of not..


    [SIZE=1]What do you call when Vladamir Putin tells the truth?- a very well made lie. It hard for him to fake
    any form of sincerity to the West- no matter how well he can fake his facial expressions./SIZE]

    quote-
    MOSCOW—Russia President Vladimir Putin said that his country doesn't want a confrontation with the West, adopting a softer tone as he defied Western criticism by visiting the Crimean peninsula that Moscow annexed from Ukraine in March.

    In a speech to Russian parliamentary leaders and Crimean lawmakers on Thursday, Mr. Putin said that Russia would do everything in its power to halt the conflict in eastern Ukraine. The president's low-key appearance, which wasn't carried live on Russian television, marked a change in tone from recent public appearances during which he has castigated the U.S. and Europe for provoking a confrontation over Ukraine.

    Mr. Putin didn't, however, offer any concrete proposals on how to solve the months-old conflict, in which Kiev's forces have battled to oust Russian-backed separatists from several cities in the country's east.

    http://online.wsj.com/articles/putin...mea-1408028402
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 16-08-2014 at 06:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Putins 'weakness' is there for all to see.

    quote-
    MY close friends live in Lugansk, one of the two major besieged cities controlled by Russian rebels, and they’ve been drinking industrial water for the past couple of weeks.

    “It’s OK, we boil it for a long time,” they tell me on Skype. I urge them to desist. In a city now with little food, water, power and communications, my regular conversations with them about daily life have dried up. Without communications, there’s now an eerie silence when I call their number.

    My friends live nearby an Absolute supermarket, a chain common in the region. In the past they’ve been fastidious about drinking bottled water, just like you and I might be. I recall that water prices are comparable to many of the huge range of vodka products that dominate a row of Absolute’s shelves.

    It’s a massive change for these middle class Ukrainians to even conceive drinking such polluted water. In a country with few environmental controls, and a region steeped in heavy industry and mining, the industrial water could come from anywhere. We don’t know. If it contains traces of heavy metals, no amount of boiling will help and the damage done to their bodies enormous.

    The lack of water, power and food means the contents of a convoy of 262 Russian lorries, covered in white canvas and bearing everything from cereal and baby food to medicines and proper drinking water, is bound to be welcomed in eastern Ukraine — even if the trucks are not.

    Even those who deeply understand the politics and are alarmed by Vladimir Putin’s move and motives need urgent help.

    But invading under the guise of humanitarianism is an age-old ploy by military aggressors. In 1938, Hitler used the pretext of a humanitarian motive to justify invading the Sudetenland region of Czechoslovakia.

    In a letter to then-British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, Hitler said German speakers and those of other ethnic groups there had been maltreated and tortured, and the region had been denied the right to self-determination. The security of more than 3 million human beings was in jeopardy, he brazenly claimed.

    Russia too has form when it comes to humanitarian missions. During the Georgian — Abkhaz war it sent a humanitarian aid column to a separatist-held city called Tkvarcheli, which the Georgian army had under siege, just as the Ukraine’s army is attempting in Donetsk and Lugansk.

    That convoy included hidden weaponry which turned events around and let the separatists eventually break free.

    It may be that Putin’s humanitarian convoy to Ukraine is just food and supplies and not weapons.

    But Putin potentially gains whatever the case. He further entrenches the narrative in the Donbass region that the Ukrainian army is the aggressor that is firing mortars and killing the local citizenry, and that Russia is rescuing them from this hideous nightmare with desperately needed supplies.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1227027774719

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinio...le/505309.html
    running out or friends and his minions im sure are a burden as well giving Russia a bad name wherever they go.
    There are 'replacements' there true hopefully nationalistic though having a heavy heart what they have
    done to the Ukraine and poisoned their relationship with Europe. Putin came about from the humiliation
    of Yeltsin but he swung to the opposite extreme...Their is nothing wrong with nationalism although
    ultra nationalism is rather dangerous and I agree- Russia needs a balanced hand and not a iron
    or corrupt one. Weather this is a lie or just a charade by Russian media to hide Russia's losing
    war in the Ukraine is another question for military intelligence as Im sure Putin has dug himself
    in as well as Hitler has and will eliminate any weak opposition...as the military would have
    to overthrow Putin as a civilian uprising would be met 'Tienanmen style'.

    http://www.thepigsite.com/swinenews/...oultry-sectors
    No pork for you- when farmers rely on overseas exports too much and forget about the local market.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 23-08-2014 at 09:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Merkel is a disgrace and should abdicate. I hope the Ukrainians 'eat up' the coming advance with
    home field advantage. Make them pay for every cm of Ukrainian soil- they wish they never arrived
    or retreat in disarray. heavy Russian losses will force them to re-think or have a 6th army situation...


    Cut them off prevent the breakout- and make it 'their Stalingrad'.

    Cut them off- set traps and exploit the weaknesses of the Russian military.

    Those worthless diplomats should go away- they are tricked by Putin- who loves to play with
    weak losers. Revenge for Stalingrad- never forget and all those years of oppression...
    Im sure the Ukrainians know the Russians weakness and should press at them...
    The Finns and NATO should toughen the 'you know what up'. Ivan might pannick
    and do 'something stupid'. I assume fighters and subs are wandering...

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe...medium=twitter
    quote-
    Ukraine said Russian forces had crossed the border and were supporting separatist attacks.
    The US State Department said it suspected a Russian-directed counter-offensive was under way.
    Russia has repeatedly denied arming or covertly supporting the rebels.
    The BBC's Barbara Plett Usher in Washington says the suspicion is that Moscow is opening a new front
    to divert Ukrainian forces from the besieged cities of Donetsk and Luhansk, where they have made significant
    advances against pro-Russian separatists.

    However, Denis Pushilin, a rebel leader in Donetsk, told a news conference that Russia was not involved in the current offensive.
    "If Russia entered into the war the counter-offensive would already be in Kiev. For now, we do without outside help," he said.
    He added that the rebel forces were receiving more volunteers, some from as far away as Serbia.
    Earlier on Wednesday, the mayor of the Ukrainian port of Novoazovsk on the Sea of Azov said rebel tanks and armoured vehicles had entered the town.
    Rebels have been trying for weeks to break out of an area further north in the Donetsk region where they are almost encircled.

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/uk...-russia-2014-8

    Sargent's knows best- its war. Lets hope the Ruskis are stopped in their advance or that World in Conflict scenario- spreads.
    I hope military intelligence is at 10/10ths including the 'Pacific'. China may take advantage of Russian actions...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 28-08-2014 at 03:12 PM.

  25. #100
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    EL Speedo what do you think of Abbott's idea to "shirtfront" Putin. Do you think that Abbott just opens his mouth to change feet?, or is he just playing politics to appease a few voters, or is he trying to act tough to impress the families of those killed on MH17.
    What I can't understand and maybe you can help, is that MH17 was supposed to have been shot down over the Ukraine. But how many civilian planes fly over the Ukraine on a daily basis. If many do why have they not all been shot down.
    Now Malaysian Airlines does not have a wonderful safety record. I recall three "accidents" in recent times.
    1. One of their planes over shot a runway and broke in half.
    2. One of their planes crashed into the Indian Ocean or disappeared altogether.
    3. One of their planes gets "shot" down over the Ukraine, or an on board explosive device blows it to bits in mid air over the Ukraine.
    No one has been found guilty of pulling the proverbial trigger that launched a surface to air missile to intercept MH17. No one has been found guilty of ordering a certain soldier to target MH17. It just sounds fishy to me and the politicians are just grabbing at what ever they can.
    What do you think?
    Last edited by cleaner; 18-10-2014 at 08:48 PM.
    "Friendship is like wetting your pants. Everyone can see it but you are the only one to feel it's warmth."

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