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Thread: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Good work to the CIA- the FSB is now on notice. Why don't they wear their real uniforms and make it official- they are not fooling anyone.
    Their tactics alas give them away. OCSE prisoners not released and now being used as a blackmail chip to prevent Russian sanctions.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ow-orders.html
    http://www.rferl.org/content/slovyan.../25364193.html

    quote-
    Their storming of regional administration and prosecutor's office in Luhansk, just 15 miles from the Russian border, came as John Kerry, the US secretary of state, revealed that American eavesdroppers have overheard intelligence operatives being directed by Moscow.

    "We know exactly who's giving those orders, we know where they are coming from," he said, in remarks to a private meeting that were leaked on Tuesday.
    The leaked tape of John Kerry, the US Secretary of State, speaking on Friday, highlighted American concerns over operations run by the GRU inside East Ukraine.

    "It's not an accident that you have some of the same people identified who were in Crimea and in Georgia and who are now in east Ukraine," he said, according to the Daily Beast website. "This is insulting to everybody's intelligence, let alone to our notions about how we ought to be behaving in the 21st century. It's thuggism, it's rogue state-ism. It's the worst order of behaviour."

    The European Union imposed travel bans and asset freezes on 15 people including a Russian deputy prime minister, the chief of staff of the Russian armed forces and the head of the country's military intelligence service.

    The action came after Washington and Brussels accused Russia of failing to abide by the agreement reached by Ukraine, Russia, the United States and the EU earlier this month.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...US-and-UK.html
    The Russians took their money with them including money that was not theirs. Lets hope it becomes worthless or useless to them.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/...ght_putin.html
    http://americablog.com/2014/04/russi...ournalist.html
    The Holodomor is widely known in Europe but a level of cover-up still exists in US & UK.
    As soon as the West accepts they have been duped by Russian influence on the media
    to cover it up- the torrent of information will come to light and Putin will be seen
    as a re-incarnation of Stalin...whom he is said to admire.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 30-04-2014 at 07:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Sure sure Putin keep lying I know how the KGB used to work as I am of Hungarian ancestry.
    Special Forces are the vanguard of any true army to crush descent and revolt and hunt
    down enemies before they have a chance to defend themselves- classic SF...COIN
    operation...

    I think they are Spetznaz (probably the 'Alpha' group) amoung them as they are too well trained and
    battle hardened they are running rings around Ukrainian forces so far- afterall who were trained
    by them. Nowonder the battlefield advantage they have in the East. Putin would only
    send his best troops to such a vital battle and all indications to the countrary are
    boulderdash. If they are Russian style blackwater mercenaries as well that
    would not surprise me either. The Ukranians need better training though with
    the level of Russian infiltration in their own government and secruity services
    you need to be watertight to take them on- as they probe for weakness like
    any elite SF unit would. As Russia know SF is more than guns and bullets
    its also political and psychological warfare elements as well- thats why they
    work closely with the GRU...


    quote-
    Strelkov said his own militia force is made up of battle-hardened fighters: “Many are Ukrainian citizens who have fought in the ranks of the Russian armed forces — in Chechnya and Central Asia. There are also those who fought in Iraq and Yugoslavia in the Ukrainian army. There are even those who have managed to be in Syria.”

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/04...h-sound-bites/

    quote-
    Most of the work is being done by several hundred members of the GRU 45th Spersnaz Regiment. They were then sent in to the Crimea disguised as civilians, to create a “popular uprising” that would enable Russia to annex Crimea. Some of the uniformed men who then took control of Crimea were apparently hired, pro-Russia, locals, but the core of this “local militia” are men with obvious military training and who have been using those skills recently. These were the spetsnaz men and they were obviously in charge. Nearly 60 percent of Crimeans are Russian and GRU appears to have been recruiting, or prospecting there for years. Some of these locals admitted that money changed hands and they were glad to be part of the effort that returned control of Crimea to Mother Russia. When you use armed amateurs you have to expect this sort of unauthorized contact with the media but these comments did not sidetrack the takeover plan. The armed men were obviously briefed and most would not talk to reporters or even let journalists get close. But a few of these fellows, apparently local recruits, just could not resist a reporter with a camera crew looking for a few snappy comments for the evening news. Some of the anonymous armed men may be civilian contractors (which Russia exports to some parts of the world) and some were just pro-Russian veterans willing to take a gun and endure a bit of risk.

    http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsf/20140410.aspx
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 01-05-2014 at 10:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Im trying not to take sides anymore as I think the Ukrainians
    and Russians need to sort things out together with Americas
    help as it has the potential to drag two superpowers into
    a country that is beginning to loose control of its own people
    and when that happens well- both sides will loose. Paramilitaries
    on both sides need disarming as this is where a Yugoslav style
    civil war can foment. Russia has also released OCSE prisoners
    so the ball is now in Ukraine's court to keep the peace. Tit
    for tat retaliations could well lead to a point of no return.


    quote-
    Pro-Russian militants stormed a Ukrainian police station in Odesa on Sunday and freed nearly 70 fellow activists as the country's leaders lamented a police force they said was widely undermined by graft or collaboration with separatists.

    Militants chanted "We will not forgive!" and "Russia!" as they smashed windows and broke down the gate at the compound two days after over 40 pro-Russian activists died in a blaze at a building they had occupied after clashes with pro-Kyiv groups.

    Odesa police said 67 activists were allowed to walk free.

    Some officers were offered the black and orange St. George's ribbon, a Russian military insignia that has become a symbol of the revolt, and were cheered by the crowd of several hundred.

    Pro-Russian supporters shout slogans during a rally inside a city police department after they stormed it in Black Sea port of Odesa May 4, 2014. Pro-Russian militants stormed a Ukrainian police station in Odesa on Sunday and freed 30 fellow activists as the prime minister blamed police corruption there for dozens of deaths in rioting on Friday. (Gleb Garanich/Reuters)

    Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk, speaking in the Black Sea port, was pointedly critical of the Odesa police: "If the law enforcement system in Odesa had worked not exclusively on the 'Seventh Kilometre' and had protected people, then these terrorist organizations would have been foiled," he said.

    The Seventh Kilometre is an open market on the edge of Odesa, associated in the popular consciousness with the corruption and black market business that have blighted Ukraine's 23 years of post-Soviet independence.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine...ists-1.2631397

    EL always talks about countries that are not energy independent are more suspetable to foreign threats.
    Austria has a new master- Russia. Ironic indeed. The EU bicker amongst themselves like little children.

    quote-
    While officials in Brussels were calling for Europe to reduce its dependency on Russian natural gas and negotiate with Moscow as a bloc, Austria was quietly bypassing the European Commission to cut its own bilateral deal on building a pipeline.
    The deal on the South Stream pipeline, which will be built under the Black Sea to Bulgaria and on to central Europe, shows the European Union's difficulty in creating a unified energy policy on Moscow during the Ukraine crisis.
    While EU officials are calling for Europe to wean itself off Russian gas, private and state-owned firms, with the support of politicians, are pushing ahead with projects to buy ever more.
    Austrian energy firm OMV agreed last week with Russia's state-controlled Gazprom to bring the South Stream pipeline to Austria's Baumgarten gas hub, outmaneuvering Italy which had wanted it to end there.

    Putin is a very clever KGB man, that I give him credit. Nowonder Europe is in such a rotten mess- of their own creation.
    The US still dithers on Keystone pipeline...


    http://time.com/86835/michael-mcfaul...ne-russia-war/
    quote-

    Amid reports that pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine are urging Russia’s military to intervene on their behalf, McFaul says he’s now reconsidering the widely-shared assumption that Russian President Vladimir Putin would prefer to destabilize Ukraine from a distance, without staging a cross-border invasion that would compel the west to take new retaliatory steps, possibly including arming the Ukrainian military.

    “It would be very costly for Russia to invade Ukraine,” McFaul said. “It’ll be real fight — maybe guerrilla warfare for years. That’s not something one does lightly. But it got a lot more likely in the last 12 hours.”

    Russia’s parliament has authorized Putin to intervene in Ukraine, though Putin said last month “I very much hope that I will not have to exercise this right.”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226904083388
    Ukrainian helicopters shot down by Russian MANPADs.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 05-05-2014 at 04:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    What does the term in the military 'paradigm' mean. Its means a continental
    shift in policy for starters and 'sunsets' on existing or flaws in current/proposed policies.
    As soon as main forces in Russia's Crimea region cross the border perhaps the
    war will enter a new stage. Putin already has his owns governments approval for
    cross-border operations he is only looking for a pre-text like Georgia in 2008.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine...ible-1.2633957

    quote-
    Speaking to reporters in Ottawa, U.S. General Philip Breedlove, NATO's supreme allied commander for Europe, said he was tasked to set up "reassurance measures" for air, land and sea that will continue until Dec. 31. A mission extending beyond that would be possible but would be left to the discretion of NATO leaders and ministers of defence, he said.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqAOf66o1Wg
    Some of our older members of the audience will remember the 'good old days' or 'bad old days' as depending
    on how you view them. It would be much easier to develop tactics when there is this lack of action though...
    Im told John Le Carre is making a new spy movie set in present day Britain. As you might recall I will
    certainly be watching it. Knowing him he may have based it on some real characters with some artistic
    liberty of course.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...r-9216442.html

    quote-
    Directed by Susanna White (Bleak House, Nanny McPhee Returns), the 2010 spy thriller follows the tense story of an English couple on holiday in Marrakech who become inextricably involved with a millionaire Russian criminal keen to bring down his murderous mob boss ‘The Prince’.Directed by Susanna White (Bleak House, Nanny McPhee Returns),

    quote-
    Russia's annexation of Crimea and its "direct involvement in agitating the situation in eastern Ukraine" has created a "new paradigm" that is forcing NATO to consider permanently stationing military assets in Eastern Europe, NATO's top military commander in Europe said Tuesday.

    Speaking to reporters in Ottawa, U.S. General Philip Breedlove, NATO's supreme allied commander for Europe, said he was tasked to set up "reassurance measures" for air, land and sea that will continue until Dec. 31. A mission extending beyond that would be possible but would be left to the discretion of NATO leaders and ministers of defence, he said.

    Canada has been hosting the U.S. air force general for the past two days. On Monday, he sat down to discuss the Ukraine situation with Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Defence Minister Rob Nicholson.

    Harper described Russia's actions in Ukraine as a "slow-motion invasion" ahead of that meeting and said recent developments in Eastern Ukraine were "very deeply concerning."

    http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-s...war-fears.html
    Quote-
    'This is really the Crimea playbook all over again, and no civilised nation is going to recognise the results of such a bogus effort,' Kerry told reporters.

    http://www.thespec.com/news-story/45...ces-to-europe/
    US Special Forces detachment sent to wander around Europe and the Baltic.

    quote-
    WASHINGTON About 200 U.S. special operations forces and support staff will be participating in training exercises across Europe and the three Baltic nations in the coming months as part of America's ongoing effort to reassure allies in the region.

    The Pentagon says about 40 special operations forces are now taking part in the two-week Exercise Spring Storm in Estonia. And 140 will participate in Exercise Flaming Sword, which is in Latvia and Lithuania this month and will include forces from America and seven other nations.

    http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/c4d5f...44feabdc0.html
    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...ing-themselves
    lets make all bankers investments subject to 'military' inspection. One cannot play both sides without getting killed by both.
    bankers have few friends lately. With all the allegations of banker terrorist financing some investigators may go for the throat...
    afterall the real economists use 'financial warfare' which the military knows- we built your network...such arrogance.
    Alas judging by Russians separatists burning banks is a sign that their presence is not welcome or under certain
    conditions- they become a target too. Sadly as the military knows money cannot pay for a free summary execution.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_financing

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukra...um-346915.html
    http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_0...avy-rain-8210/
    They don't take orders from Kiev nor do they from Moscow. Welcome to the Donetsk Peoples Republic. Ukraine is beginning
    to split up just like Yugoslavia did when Tito went. How it ends is anybodies guess.
    (naturally opinions from both Kiev and Moscow). The war enters a new level of complexity in political
    and ethnic relations. Putin claims they are beyond his control. We shall see.


    quote-
    "Reaction to the results of the Putin-Burkhalter meeting is a matter of deep concern as it effectively puts into question the prospects of the OSCE's efforts to launch an inclusive national dialogue,” Lavrov said in a phone call with his German counterpart, Frank-Walter Steinmeier.

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article183693.html
    Very important meeting- maybe a sign of things to come- weather its indifference or a warming to each others opinions is another.

    http://rt.com/news/157696-kiev-reaction-osce-russia/

    http://en.itar-tass.com/world/730806
    We have to be careful with militias running around with guns without organisation and people wonder how WWI started.
    Bringing up the old wounds of the Russian Front/ Great Patriotic War and how both sides committed atrocities many still remember.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-914093.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars
    A 10 year war like that possibly in Bosnia that never ended till all sides decided it was time to talk.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3Ey4-qfIDU
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...72c_story.html
    It would not be nice to get the food for your children and be fodder for snipers on both sides. civillians always get caught in the middle.

    Yes they do look like spies- fake identities, multiple mobile phones and sidearms. Both sides are enagaging in the same activity.

    quote-
    The post-Cold War order that emerged from the breakup of the Soviet Union was doomed to fail because it rested on a belief that post-Soviet Russia was no longer a problem. Even when Western leaders realized that Russia under Vladimir Putin was becoming a problem, they exchanged political acquiescence with the Kremlin for economic benefits. Liberal democracies agreed to play a game of “let’s pretend,” in which they viewed Russia as a “normal country” while the Russian elite became integrated into the West — and corrupted the Western system from within.

    Putin’s invasion of Ukraine made it clear that he has stopped pretending. The Kremlin will not limit itself to cracking down on opposition within Russia’s borders.

    The survival of Putin’s system is based on a permanent search for internal and external enemies. Ukraine has become the testing ground for a Kremlin that seeks to eliminate the very idea of revolution — not only in Russia but also in the former Soviet bloc — and to force the West to accept its right to do so.

    The dismemberment of Ukraine also exposes the mechanism of the Russian matrix, in which foreign policy is the main instrument of domestic agenda. Those worrying only about Russian imperialism are wrong: Land-grabbing and “defending” the Russian-speaking population in other countries are the means to turn Russia into a state at war, making Putin a wartime president and strengthening his position at home.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...m_opinions_pop

    http://www.internationalpolicydigest...-good-war-gru/
    Why is ELSpeedo talking about GRU so much. Hopefully in London but not here yet.

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/use-th...stom_click=rss
    Witing a playbook for the new Cold War- some old tactics- some new ones.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...l-9322948.html
    Towards the sinister.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 13-05-2014 at 01:09 PM.



  5. #55
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Not sure if to post under the Ukraine or Cyber Warfare post......


    http://www.news.com.au/technology/on...-1226914819562

    ...
    The ambassador for Ukraine in China has already pointed the finger about the origins of the hoax.

    “I am 100 per cent sure that this is a provocation organised by the secret services of Russia specifically to negatively affect the image of Ukraine and make some trouble, dirt in the relations between Ukraine and China,” he said to local news agency,

    ........
    94 ED Fairmont...... EL 15x7alloys with 225's on the rear, 205's on front. Transmission cooler for towing, tinted windows
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinchy View Post
    Not sure if to post under the Ukraine or Cyber Warfare post......


    http://www.news.com.au/technology/on...-1226914819562

    ...
    The ambassador for Ukraine in China has already pointed the finger about the origins of the hoax.

    “I am 100 per cent sure that this is a provocation organised by the secret services of Russia specifically to negatively affect the image of Ukraine and make some trouble, dirt in the relations between Ukraine and China,” he said to local news agency,

    ........
    China and Russia are very good friends and you'd notice they even have a different economic system BRICS compared
    with our failing G20. Breaking up such a strong partnership is hard and both countries distrust the West after the events surrouding
    the Breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991. I don't think the Chinese Secret Service would fall for something like that. With the West trying
    to penalise Russia its probably sent its money to China for safe keeping and the S.China sea is something China and US can never agree upon.

    News corp is owned by Rupert Murdoch a man who had gotten in trouble with British authorities for phone hacking- so we
    have to trust but verify his comments.He is a rich and powerful man and like many used his connnections to escape justice
    unlike the common man. With this sort of personality one has to be careful on some of the news stories they publish.
    Was he trying to win favours by marrying a Chinese woman? Chinese culture is not that stupid.

    I remember the start of the Bosnian war as we wept while Serbia was killing Croats then the Croats started killing the Serbs and everybody else.
    With that precedent set the war spilt over to every civillian community- once neighbours now bitter enemies. I don't take sides and only feel sorry for the civillians. Kiev is far from a shining example of a well represented/low corruption government and is beginning to look no better than Moscow.
    Considering over 40% of the population is Russian/ethinic Slav the Ukrainian government thinks every Russian is a Putin supporter.
    The only thing they have done is to polarise into two camps by their own actions.

    Look more closely in the story Pinchy. I think the word 'mercenary' should be used. Soldiers generally hate mercenaries as they are paid more
    and do not follow the Geneva Convention. Never liked them, *****s for the highest bidder. I assume both sides would not trust such people.
    Considering the white-supremacist elements in the Ukraine I don't think Chinese would be very welcome either. They don't sound particularily
    bright for soldiers(and even conned by one of their own people for a few dollars more)
    and I doubt they'd survive their first week of war as conscripts and green soldiers are cannon fodder.
    The Russian Front as my Grandfather said chewed up whole divisions and Army Group Centre at Stalingrad. Its not
    for the faint of heart nor is it for thrillseekers as this war like all counter-insurgency wars is rather cruel in nature.
    If I was forming a A-Team it would be from soldiers who served in Iraq/Afghanistan/Bosnia/Chechnya/Dagestan
    as this war is for warriors where war is their natural environment and money only pay bills...

    Check out that story 'towards the sinster' and you will already see mercenaries are in S.Ukraine as the Ukrainian army
    cannot dislodge the Russians. M-16 riles appearing (not standard issue in E.Europe !!!)- strange...can't the Ukrainian army fight?
    and who was responsible for that burning building? Agent provocatuars on both sides seem to run about attacking targets of interests
    in the hopes of making the conflict more protracted and more wide ranging.

    Im beginning to see there is a 'blood feud' between the Ukrainians and the Russians which goes back hundreds
    of years torn between Warsaw and the Prussians to the Spires of Red Square im sure the banksters are profiting
    greatly from arms sales to whoever they can sell their **** to. The Western banksters want to provoke a war with
    Russia-China well they may get more than what they bargained for.

    I play a game of cards with a Serbian man now and then and as I was Hungarian/ Croatian Catholicism
    I see a war between Catholics vs Orthodox- again. Neither of us ever mentions the war in Bosnia.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/0...-at-our-troops
    friendly fire ooops- time for a headshot on that greedy mercenaries skull...

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world...aine-1.1776366
    Chinese banks thank the Russians with a new found windfall.

    quote-
    The statements represented a hardening of positions that could drag Ukraine closer to all-out civil war and is likely to intensify tensions between Russia and the West.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...fa3_story.html
    which benefits nobody no more- a civil war forments.

    quote-
    The current chairman of the 57-nation Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, Didier Burkhalter, the president of Switzerland, who met with Mr. Putin last week, told European Union foreign ministers meeting in Brussels about a “road map” meant to lead to a peaceful resolution.

    “We have reached a pivotal moment in this crisis, both for Ukraine and for Europe,” Mr. Burkhalter said. “The window of opportunity is likely to be short.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/13/wo...e/ukraine.html
    If this fails well I think I knows what happens next. It would be nice to send independent observers to keep both sides honest.

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article183269.html
    Maybe the mercenaries have already met a grisly fate? Afterall if you fight for money and no flag your not entitled to any sympathy.
    The Geneva Convention alas does not cover mercenaries and for good reason. Their reputation has never been good in history and if this
    is true it sullies our moral high ground in the area. I doubt by their behaviour they are not right ones to train the Ukrainian military either.

    http://english.farsnews.com/newstext...13930222000236
    If Brennan has already visited Kiev im sure Putins visit in the Crimea is as well.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.1791465
    I don't know why the Democrats harp on about **** Cheney's adventures in Iraq when the dogs of war are profitable- for both sides.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...impr/?page=all
    A military review of equipment and tactics by Russia.

    quote-
    Jacob Kipp, a former director of the Army’s Foreign Military Studies Office at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., said what stands out to him are new mobile communications.

    Spetsnaz commandos carry collar, or helmet-mounted, radios that enable them to talk to one another and to the battalion level overseeing the operation.

    “A couple things stand out, and one of them is the radio equipment attached to the uniform up by the face so he doesn’t have to use his hands to communicate,” Mr. Kipp said. “That’s real new. There is also a helmet version that also has ‘commo’ gear inside. It basically allows you not to have to do hand signals to move people around.”

    The Russians have employed a different communication tactic than the United States.

    “There is a whole different culture about ‘commo’ in the Russian army than there is in ours,” Mr. Kipp said. “We tend to want everyone to report in whenever they do something. The Russians lay out an assignment and tasks and give it a timeline and you report in if you are not on your timeline, or if you run into unexpected opposition.”

    Gen. Scales said Mr. Putin is displaying for TV cameras his best forces: Spetsnaz, airborne, naval infantry (akin to U.S. Marines) and interior security forces, or about 30,000 of the 860,000 active military force.

    “We don’t know what shape the Russian military is in, really,” he said. “It would be like us highlighting a foreign adventure by only showing Delta, SEALs and Special Forces and Rangers. We’d look a lot more intimidating if we only showed that face of our force.”

    http://missilethreat.com/putin-screw...codes-to-nato/
    When Reagan rang up Moscow he said famously - '6 minutes' till....
    Moscow screwed up badly and probably why it wants to defend
    Eastern Ukraine at any cost. Let them have it.


    It carries 10 MIRVs enough to turn Australia into a burning radioactive hole in the ground. 2-10MT per warhead. City destroyer.
    The Minuteman and MX can launch quicker but SS-18 carries more warheads. The US is investing more in missile defence than
    building just new generation nuclear attack systems. Space based defence systems are the future.


    quote-
    In March 2006 Russia made an agreement with Ukraine that will regulate cooperation between the two countries on maintaining the R-36M2 missiles. It was reported that the cooperation with Ukraine will allow Russia to extend the service life of the R-36M2 missiles by at least ten to 28 years.

    Ukraine built the guidance and control systems for Russian ICBM’s carrying about 5000 nuclear bombs and they still have the service and maintenance agreement.

    So two big Soviet era mistakes come back to bite Putin
    1. Do not give up Crimea if you want to keep it
    2. Do not have key military systems made in Ukraine if there is any chance that the USSR breaks up

    The key information and people can leave and still hold Russia’s nuclear capability hostage even if Russia takes all of Ukraine. Like Von Braun being able to help the American rocket program. It also would be like the designer of the Enigma code machine spilling secrets. It is information and knowledge and not a factory.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...acemakers.html
    Meanwhile in Odessa. Nice place when its not a warzone.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/.premium-1.595913
    Two sides both at a point of no return. What happens next is going to be very frightening not just for the Ukraine...

    quote-

    "We lost men, but we still have enough men and weapons to fight if the army comes," he said. When asked whether Donetsk could become a second Grozny, the capital of Chechnya which was destroyed during the war between Russians and Chechens, Borodai answered that he could not rule that out but that it would be the fault of the Ukrainian Army.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 29-05-2014 at 08:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    https://www.rusi.org/analysis/commen...538F2DF245D7F/


    quote-
    Whilst NATO has sent paratroops for cooperative training with Eastern European member states, neither the US, nor the large West-European nations have the resources or the will to deploy heavy ground forces to Eastern Europe in sufficient quantity to provide a militarily significant deterrent force to Russian adventurism in the region. Current ground force deployments are essentially symbolic reminders of the Article 5 ‘tripwire’ that Mr Putin is careful not to cross directly. By contrast, advanced air assets such as F-15C, Typhoon and Rafale can deploy quickly and relatively cheaply whilst providing a genuinely credible military counterbalance to Russian air forces in the region.

    If Mr Putin decided to invade Eastern Ukraine, Transnistria, or hypothetically even a NATO member, a handful of air superiority fighters could not stop him. However, deterring Russian Air Force incursions into the sovereign airspace of Eastern European allies is important for regional stability. The Ukrainian Air Force proved unable to prevent Russian jets and helicopters from operating over Crimea which contributed to its visible weakness in the East. Airspace incursions are a powerful intimidation tool which has historically been used by Russia against its neighbours. Having air assets which can credibly intercept and hold at risk the most advanced Russian warplanes is therefore a strong defensive tool which NATO can and has deployed to reassure its Eastern members and allies.


    The Polish kept their Mig29s. Wonder if they put some better systems into them. Eurofighter and F-15

    http://blogs.wsj.com/emergingeurope/...s-up-for-sale/
    Don't get too excited. They require allot of maintenance and foreign weapons sales rules im sure the weapons system have been neutered. Maybe the Americans can use some for dissamilar training. They have a few Migs somewhere at Flag to compared with and
    propertedly a Su-27 as well. Those RD-33 are gas guzzlers compared to effortless PW-F100.

    quote-
    Hungary received 28 MIG-29s in 1993 as debt compensation from Russia. The planes soon became local pilots’ favorites due to excellent maneuverability, which allowed the likes of Peter Kovacs, Gyula Vari and Zoltan Szabo to win world championship titles for flying them.

    However, there were also downsides. MIGs are well-known for their high maintenance costs and high fuel consumption. Some planes in the fleet actually had to be salvaged in order to get spare parts to repair the others.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 08-06-2014 at 12:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    "I don't know what kind of weapons will be used in the third world war, assuming that there will be a third world war. But I can tell you what the fourth world war will be fought with - stone clubs."
    Albert Einstein.

    For your viewing pleasure -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sET5uQ4PfQI


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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by falconxh View Post
    "I don't know what kind of weapons will be used in the third world war, assuming that there will be a third world war. But I can tell you what the fourth world war will be fought with - stone clubs."
    Albert Einstein.

    For your viewing pleasure -

    http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~uctpand/_Media/foxtrot.gif


    Albert Einstein was a genuis don't doubt that however the ironic thing about
    Einstein's genius is that he petitioned the US President at the time to
    develop the atomic bomb in reponse to rumours circulating from the OSS
    that the Germans were developing one as well. All humans are warlike
    including Einstein. The way you stand up for your belief systems is
    enough for this clever alien to know you talk one way- do another.
    My favorite and lesser known nuclear scientist Szilárd sadly
    said due to human technological development- it was inevitable.
    Carl Sagans saying at the bottom of the post made him even
    more pessimistic.

    In response to Einsteins quote (they don't talk about this one so much)

    An effective defense, they contended, would make such a war "winnable"
    - Edward Teller

    Teller said WWIII was winnable. Obviously Russia and China
    heeded his words. He developed the Hydrogen bomb and possibly
    the even deadlier and lesser known neutron bomb.

    In more recent areas of particle physics Einstein truisms
    are always being challenged and proven right or wrong-
    or maybe not so wrong but slightly corrected as rarely
    in physics do you get two different methods to get
    the same answer- most formulas here follow a similar
    vein and would be akin to re-inventing the wheel.

    If Russia and China are building more nuclear weapons
    and violating strategic arms treaties America cannot be
    blamed for doling out money for ABM....nuclear checkmate
    will be used against us in some countries foreign policies.

    After-all if you can stop them before re-entry you have
    much more chance than were the coming superfast in on re-entry.
    We have the technology to achieve that as well.
    Should flow down back to civilian tech in the end im sure-
    such high speed calibration tools/guidance systems would even be useful
    in the future Mars space program even.

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/19/he-proved-einstein-wrong/
    Maybe Einstein had it 99% right- somebody just had to tidy up the math for him.

    quote-
    Einstein wrote back: “I don’t have my earlier work available . . . But it sure seems that I have made the same mistake there.” Einstein signed that lette
    “I had written to him questioning a point about the first approximation equation,” Salzer once wrote.
    Einstein, after laying out a series of brain-busting equations, concluded that Salzer had been mistaken.
    “Yours respectfully, A. Einstein,” the brain behind the theory of relativity signed the Aug. 29, 1938 letter in his native German.
    But less than a month later, Einstein reconsidered. “Shortly after I wrote you, I noticed that the error was on my side,” Einstein
    wrote Salzer on Sept. 13, 1938. Salzer’s bold correction is credited with helping Einstein revive and reexamine his unified field theory, according to Guernsey’s president Arlan Ettinger.

    Unified field theory is one of my pet subjects. Though physics has nothing to do with
    the Ukraine unless you want to talk about Chenoybyl...


    Im sure this is in Krakens book collection at home as well as mine.
    Out of the libraries come the killers." - - Bertolt Brecht, "1940"
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 21-06-2014 at 07:30 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    LOL speedy your comic reminds me of something i read once -
    "if you see a genius on a bad day, he may seem to be a madman
    if you se a madman on a good day(one of his better days) he can seem to be a genius"

    i dig your informative link too, ta -


    Shortly after I wrote you, I noticed that the error was on my side,” Einstein wrote Salzer on Sept. 13, 1938.

    Salzer’s bold correction is credited with helping Einstein revive and reexamine his unified field theory, according to Guernsey’s president Arlan Ettinger.

    “His correction… opened the door to further inspection,” Ettinger said. “Had not Herbert Salzer pointed this out, we may be all way behind where we are today — so it indeed has enormous importance.”

    After grad school, Salzer, who eventually settled on Washington Avenue near the Brooklyn Botanic Garden, went on to become a mathematician, scientist, and inventor.

    He never met Einstein in person.

    A 1939 letter Einstein wrote to President Franklin D. Roosevelt, in which he urged the US to research building an atom bomb, fetched $2 million at a 2002 auction



    physics wise, personally i am a fan of the heisenberg uncertainity principle

    Unified field theory is one of my pet subjects. Though physics has nothing to do with
    the Ukraine unless you want to talk about Chenoybyl...



    ok i would like to, that is, with your kind indulgence .......

    some background info 'though maybe
    25 years ago i used to work in the pilbara dropping radioactive probes down drill holes
    i am still considered licenced for massive gamma gamma sources of Co 60 and Cs 136
    and nuetron source AmBe 247
    being due to the somatic effects handling those sources have had upon me
    i use to manage this gig where we worked 3 weeks on then 3 weeks off
    most times i would train guys up, get them licenced at TAFE and Health
    [wire line data logging and radiation safety certificate]
    and then they would leave not long after
    always worried about glowing in the dark
    so i did a lotta 9 week shifts
    anyway when handling radioactive sources from the container, or pig
    with this long metal proddy thinyamajig
    the vital thing is to remember keep you distance
    as most importantly the inverse square law is the one highly applicable
    you'll remember 1 over the distance squared?
    one of my workers once picked up the alpha emitter, AmBe 247
    (incidentally it's not kept in the usual lead pig but an epoxy type substrate pig)
    apparently he picked up the source with his fingers
    and and then showed the drillers
    "see, it can't hurt me"

    well, now, regratably he'd be long dead
    RIP
    riddled with bone cancer

    what can one say?
    maybe -
    necessity is not a fact but an interpretation
    friedrich nietzsche, the will to power

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by falconxh View Post
    LOL speedy your comic reminds me of something i read once -
    "if you see a genius on a bad day, he may seem to be a madman
    if you se a madman on a good day(one of his better days) he can seem to be a genius"

    i dig your informative link too, ta -


    Shortly after I wrote you, I noticed that the error was on my side,” Einstein wrote Salzer on Sept. 13, 1938.

    Salzer’s bold correction is credited with helping Einstein revive and reexamine his unified field theory, according to Guernsey’s president Arlan Ettinger.

    “His correction… opened the door to further inspection,” Ettinger said. “Had not Herbert Salzer pointed this out, we may be all way behind where we are today — so it indeed has enormous importance.”

    After grad school, Salzer, who eventually settled on Washington Avenue near the Brooklyn Botanic Garden, went on to become a mathematician, scientist, and inventor.

    He never met Einstein in person.

    A 1939 letter Einstein wrote to President Franklin D. Roosevelt, in which he urged the US to research building an atom bomb, fetched $2 million at a 2002 auction



    physics wise, personally i am a fan of the heisenberg uncertainity principle

    Unified field theory is one of my pet subjects. Though physics has nothing to do with
    the Ukraine unless you want to talk about Chenoybyl...



    ok i would like to, that is, with your kind indulgence .......

    some background info 'though maybe
    25 years ago i used to work in the pilbara dropping radioactive probes down drill holes
    i am still considered licenced for massive gamma gamma sources of Co 60 and Cs 136
    and nuetron source AmBe 247
    being due to the somatic effects handling those sources have had upon me
    i use to manage this gig where we worked 3 weeks on then 3 weeks off
    most times i would train guys up, get them licenced at TAFE and Health
    [wire line data logging and radiation safety certificate]
    and then they would leave not long after
    always worried about glowing in the dark
    so i did a lotta 9 week shifts
    anyway when handling radioactive sources from the container, or pig
    with this long metal proddy thinyamajig
    the vital thing is to remember keep you distance
    as most importantly the inverse square law is the one highly applicable
    you'll remember 1 over the distance squared?
    one of my workers once picked up the alpha emitter, AmBe 247
    (incidentally it's not kept in the usual lead pig but an epoxy type substrate pig)
    apparently he picked up the source with his fingers
    and and then showed the drillers
    "see, it can't hurt me"

    well, now, regratably he'd be long dead
    RIP
    riddled with bone cancer

    what can one say?
    maybe -
    necessity is not a fact but an interpretation
    friedrich nietzsche, the will to power
    completely off topic-

    Remember me and Redright were talking about ***ishima
    a while back and the associated cover up by the Japanese
    Govt. For those who remember Chenoybyl will know
    that once a radiative cloud gets airborne its best
    to stay indoors....for up to 2 weeks in some cases...
    (with water stockpiles and some food)
    but you hope you would be evacuated out of a area
    which suffers a too high particulates level...


    quote-
    If the proposed F-15C cuts do indeed come from Europe, it would mark the third significant reduction of USAFE’s fighter fleet since 2010. Spangdahlem Air Base in Germany lost 21 F-16s starting in 2010 as part of an Air Force cost-savings plan. The base last year also said goodbye to 21 A-10s — the last remaining “Warthogs” in Europe — as part of Air Force cutbacks to meet tougher budget limits and a new defense strategy shifting focus away from Europe to the Asia-Pacific region.

    http://www.stripes.com/nearly-half-o...rseas-1.272303

    Wow Im sure the Russians are happy. Cut back on F-15 and completely
    remove the A-10 out of the equation. The White House knows nothing
    about deterrence and if the Ukraine gets invaded some time in
    the future like Georgia we will all know why....I don't know how
    Obama can be so 'exceptional' in his speech at West Point
    yet make a mockery out of our forces in the real world...
    He may be a lawyer but he knows nothing about foreign
    policy or the Cold War strategy of deterrance. He makes
    the painfully nice man Jimmy Carter look more right
    wing than Ronald Reagan.

    In other words don't talk big unless some dark shadow is behind you enforcing
    that policy...I suppose Eisenhower was left to fix Trumans mistakes
    Korea is a war waged by lawyers and technocrats nowonder
    MacArthur quit.

    For those who remember the glory days of the Cold War in the 80's
    during Reforger and Team Spirit we had over 400,000 men
    on the other side of the Berlin Wall. The Fulda Gap was a real
    danger. History never repeats.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 12-06-2014 at 08:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    A deal broken. The stalemate begins- or something else entirely.
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...-deal-24082940

    quote-
    Russia on Wednesday offered to restore the discounted gas price it granted Ukraine under the ousted pro-Russian president, but Ukraine demanded an even better deal and called for arbitration to settle the dispute.

    Speaking in Moscow, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Russia was offering the discount as a "partnership deal." Russia's energy minister, Alexander Novak, specified the price offered as $385 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas.

    "We believe that our offer is more than in a partnership spirit, aimed to support the Ukrainian economy at a rather difficult time," Putin said in televised remarks. "But if our offers are rejected it means we will enter another stage. This is not our choice. We do not want it."

    Russia and Ukraine have been locked for months in a dispute over the price of Russian gas supplies and Ukraine's debt for previous deliveries. Moscow has threatened to turn off the tap if Ukraine fails to settle the multibillion-dollar debt, but has repeatedly pushed back the deadline after Ukraine paid off part of the sum.

    European Union-brokered talks between the two countries in Brussels on Wednesday failed to reach a compromise over the price.

    The bruising gas dispute comes amid continuing fighting in eastern Ukraine, where government forces have battled pro-Russian rebels for two months. The insurgents have pushed for joining Russia following Moscow's annexation of Ukraine's Crimean peninsula in March, but Putin has ignored their appeal in an apparent bid to avoid another round of crippling Western sanctions.

    Putin also seemed eager to avoid cutting off gas to Ukraine, a move that would likely disrupt shipments to European customers via pipelines crossing Ukrainian territory.

    He emphasized Wednesday that the latest offer would restore the price Ukraine had under pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych.

    In December, Russia offered Ukraine an even lower price of $268 as it sought to give a financial lifeline to Yanukovych, who was facing massive protests triggered by his decision to ditch a pact with the European Union and opt for closer ties with Moscow.

    After Yanukovych was chased from power in February, Russia denounced his ouster as a "coup" and annulled all gas discounts, bringing the price back to $485 per 1,000 cubic meters, in line with a 2009 contract.

    Ukraine has refused to pay for Russian gas, calling the price politically motivated and demanding that Moscow lower it.

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    Experienced Member falconxh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Unified field theory is one of my pet subjects. Though physics has nothing to do with
    the Ukraine unless you want to talk about Chenoybyl...



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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by falconxh View Post
    Unified field theory is one of my pet subjects. Though physics has nothing to do with
    the Ukraine unless you want to talk about Chenoybyl...


    http://www.smh.com.au/world/chernoby...517-zrfpn.html
    death may re-awaken again. Many died the true story is still covered-up.

    Chernobyl is located in Ukraine silly.
    My family remembers the radiation cloud that
    travelled across Europe....from the French
    countryside to the mountains of Scandinavia.
    As some of us know the area still has a exclusion
    zone due to radiation levels. The sarcophagus covering
    the broken reactor also needs renewal...

    I suppose it was the 80's atleast it better
    than tactical nuclear war with NATO vs
    the Warsaw Pact.

    A old German movie- Der Dritte Weltkrieg made in 1998 is
    probably the closest somebody has made to a conventional
    war between Russia & NATO with not much fantasy like
    Hollywood puts in- these days anyway. For those who
    remember the bleak ending of silence at the End of
    the Movie of One the Beach know the cockroaches
    will then rule the world.

    hhttp://tu.tv/videos/zdf-tv-docudrama-world-war-3
    SBS had a German-English translation. Somebody should put it back up. Very plausible outcomes
    in this movie and the authors have researched nuclear strategy and a escalating
    conventional war in Europe- just like today...the gas cuts are just the beginning.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqg88xOI95E
    I like Ukrainian humour. Some people take their stars wars as serious as a religion.
    It also has two choices of the universe and what shape it...

    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 14-06-2014 at 09:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    ah i see
    silly of me

    the ability to simplify means to eliminate the unnecessary so that the necessary may speak
    hans hoffman


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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by falconxh View Post
    ah i see
    silly of me

    the ability to simplify means to eliminate the unnecessary so that the necessary may speak
    hans hoffman

    Nice quote but also seperating the wheat from the chaff in infomation is helpful.

    Tanks alive in the Ukraine. Russia moves by stealth to encircle Kiev? Obviously
    Obama foreign policy is now being interpreted for true weakness- as there only
    meaningless words anyway- no muscle to back it up. Obviously Putin sees
    the true weakling in Obama he does not to admit. A superpower has no
    room for the weak or insipid. Just how Brezhnev played silly Carter into
    a trap...

    quote-
    NATO issued a warning to the Kremlin last night that sending its tanks into Ukraine would mark a 'serious escalation' of the crisis.
    Pro-Moscow separatists yesterday confirmed earlier claims by Kiev that at least three tanks and other armoured vehicles were in their hands.

    The rebels refused to identify the origin but Ukraine alleged they were smuggled in from Russia.
    It came as Kiev premier Arseniy Yatsenyuk warned that Moscow is poised to cut off gas to his country in a bitter row over payments, calling for emergency measures in the event of a shut down.


    fully armoured with top/bottom anti-armor protection- this is no rebel tank...the war increases will weaknesses are more noticeable- to be exploited.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-battles.html
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 14-06-2014 at 10:09 AM.

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    Experienced Member falconxh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    explanations become excuses,
    yo old bean,
    my apologies
    sorry did not read your earlier post properlike dated 13/06
    and totally missed the header link -

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/chernoby...517-zrfpn.html

    the last scene in the footage will haunt me for years to come for sure
    like one of the yank newsreaders said,
    "we know more about this incident than the people living there"

    that link again -
    http://www.smh.com.au/world/chernoby...517-zrfpn.html

    talking of rebels i perceive a maltese one has been banned for re entry by our immigration minister ..
    and, the police are understanably worried that the group may splinter
    well, now, like they say of old,
    divide and conquer
    [divide et impera / divide (your opponents), and so rule them]

    please be so kind, ELSpeedo, as to keep sharing you information gathering
    which i personally find most insightful
    fyi some constructive advice
    you mix up loose for lose and your for you're, and, only sometimes

    Editor: A person employed on a newspaper, whose business it is to seperate the wheat from the chaff, and to see that the chaff is printed. Elbert Hubbard

    in any event, just in case someone else missed that link -

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/chernoby...517-zrfpn.html

    things are certainly getting serious and hotting up, and, not rolling stones jumping jack flash
    its a gas gas gas

    what's the latest?

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    what's happenning?
    cheers

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    any news? hear a peace treaty is now being negotiated ..

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by falconxh View Post
    any news? hear a peace treaty is now being negotiated ..
    There is still fighting in Donesk as far as im informed.
    Both sides are jokceying for positions so I assume any
    good press is good news till the next incident happens...

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27941174





    Peace treaties in Eastern Europe lately don't seem to have the value they used to anyway.
    Considering that at the end of WWII the war ended in Eastern Europe
    and in the Pacific Theatre Japan and Vladivosktok this is a interesting
    development though I think shortlived.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/nucle...en-2014-6?IR=T
    The doomsday machine 'codename Perimeter' still exists and is very operational.
    Maybe Russia has a real Skynet afterall a mechanical and electronic system
    that can automate a nuclear attack- without human interference if necesary.

    quote-
    That is, unless someone builds a “Doomsday Machine” that takes the human beings out of the loop. And who’d be crazy enough to do that?
    Turns out the Soviet high command, in its pathetic and paranoid last years, was just that crazy.

    The USSR built a computer system that would watch for signs of nuclear attack and retaliate on its own if the Soviet leadership was struck first and wiped out. We’ve since asked the Russians if it’s still on, and they’ve reassured us, with complete confidence, that we should mind our own business.

    Dead Hand (Russian: Система «Периметр», Systema "Perimetr", 15Э601),[1] known also as Perimeter,[2] is a Cold-War-era nuclear-control system used by the Soviet Union. General speculation from insiders alleges that the system remains in use in post-Soviet Russia. An example of fail-deadly deterrence, it can automatically trigger the launch of the Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) if a nuclear strike is detected by seismic, light, radioactivity and overpressure sensors. By most accounts, it is normally switched off and is supposed to be activated during dangerous crises only; however, it is said to remain fully functional and able to serve its purpose whenever needed.[3]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand_(nuclear_war)



    quote-
    There's more to the spirit of the Dead Hand, though. Much of this book is about the extensive germ warfare research that the Soviets conducted in violation of international law. Hoffman has managed to track down the assorted scientists who worked in the Urals, in Kazakhstan, in Siberia, the Aral Sea, and other places. Each one has a small part to play in a dark effort. The Soviets weaponized all kinds of killer bugs - plague, smallpox, anthrax, tularemia, and others. The Soviets created anti-biotic resistant strains of each. Some were hybrid bugs that would kill in two stages over several weeks.

    The Soviets referred to a semi-automatic defense plan as the "Dead Hand." The Dead Hand was a system that would fire a portfolio of SS-18's on to the United States and Western Europe if its sensors made the conclusion that the Kremlin had been destroyed by a nuclear blast. The system was in place as early as the mid-80s. It is a bit of a miracle, given the demonstrated shortcomings of Soviet engineering, that it never made a mistake.

    In the last days of the Soviet Unions, leaders like Sam Nunn and Les Aspin worked to identify and eliminate nuclear stockpiles. Unfortunately, not as much effort went in to finding chemical weapons. Some were found, but the author believes that many stockpiles were either hidden or lost.

    The takeaway, ultimately, is that the Dead Hand still exists, albeit in a new mode. There is no semi-automatic nuclear weapon program. Instead, there are the residual weapons (both chemical and nuclear) that have fallen into untraceable hands throughout the world. There appears to be evidence that some of those hands include the governments of Iran and North Korea, but it is just as likely that many private groups are able to put their hands on the remainders of the Soviet arsenals.

    This book contradicts some of the larger interpretations of Ronald Reagan's presidency. Reagan built up weapons stockpiles, building not just the Pershing IIs but also the drive to SDI. Many have taken those events to say that Reagan was hawkish, and that he strategically invested in defense in order to put economic pressure on the Soviet budgets. Hoffman doesn't deny that SDI did require additional spending, but his analysis is that Reagan was driven first by an absolute hatred of nuclear weaponry. He knew that their system was able to produce advanced weaponry but little grain. Hoffman portrays Reagan very favorably, even as he is less taken by Bush I.



    A dark spectre in Eastern Europe Orthodox vs Catholicism and their various political arms shows that peoples belief systems are often exploited.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 26-07-2014 at 08:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Cease fire whats that? Well thats a chance to get your wounded out, re-arm, re-group, strategize
    as well as plan for the next battle.


    Call of Duty- Modern Warfare, the real thing- who needs a simulation?

    quote-
    MOSCOW — Violence in Ukraine escalated sharply Tuesday, as artillery shells and airstrikes pierced the relative calm of a 10-day cease-fire hours after President Petro Poroshenko allowed it to expire.

    Both sides appeared to be readying for a protracted battle after days in which the fighting diminished but did not disappear. It remained unclear whether the Ukrainian military, which has battled pro-Russian separatists since mid-April, would be able strike a decisive blow against the rebels, who have seized territory in eastern Ukraine.

    The longer a conflict drags on, the greater the risk of further civilian casualties and the harder it will be for Ukraine’s new government to stitch the society back together. Ukraine’s economy presented a formidable challenge even without a growing insurgency in the country’s industrial heartland. The foreign ministers of Ukraine, Russia, Germany and France planned to meet Wednesday in Berlin in a last-ditch effort to restart negotiations, the Russian Foreign Ministry said late Tuesday.

    “The active phase of the counterterrorism operation resumed this morning,” the chairman of Ukraine’s parliament, Oleksandr Turchynov, told legislators Tuesday. “Our armed forces are hitting the bases and outposts of terrorists.”

    Russian President Vladimir Putin condemned the renewed violence, putting Ukraine in a line with Iraq, Syria and Libya and saying that he could not stand by as a nation with close historical ties to Russia descended into chaos.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...322_story.html

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsate...y-hes-winning/
    You'll never learn about politics and warfare on the golfing green however you will learn more
    from a game of chess by a master- learning your lessons and applying them to the next game.
    Why Putin always wins against weak limbed Obama. Obviously when Putin was a young
    recruit to the KGB his senior handlers suggested that a game used since antiquity to settle
    scores to the rules of nations is a game one must learn...as the word 'checkmate' in
    warfare is something every general dreads but politicians have other ways of dealing
    with it- some of which may ensure their own downfall not unlike a previous system- denial.
    For those who remember the Kasparov vs Fischer matches some people take it
    very seriously indeed. Though for what you invest in it may yield allot...

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28087537
    Russia is playing the West like a harmonica and its seems the corrupt West even directly arms its protagonists.
    Now you now know why some will understand the will, discipline and conduct in the Western World is now non-existent.
    I suppose France also gave the Argentines Exocets to sink British ships as well. What game France
    is playing- who knows. Looking after ones own interests can often jeopardise others and makes
    you look like a class A hypocrite. It also gives enemies a chance to stab you at the heart at
    a later date when your not only financially weaker but a military weakness that invites disaster.
    I suppose France capitulated with the Vichy government but later in the war when things
    were not going their way the Germans certainly paid out on the French...

    quote-
    President Francois Hollande insists the sanctions imposed on Russia following its annexation of Crimea from Ukraine do not cover military hardware. He says that the $1.2bn (£700m) contract is also too costly to cancel.

    President Obama said earlier this month that he was concerned about the sale. He said that in light of the crisis in Ukraine it would have been "preferable to press the pause button" on the deal, even though it was important for French jobs.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 03-07-2014 at 08:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Well well Vladimir is the silly Ukraine 'sideshow' coming to a end
    is that you best move in chess? Or have the pawns and the useful idiots been expended?



    quote-

    As fighting intensifies in eastern Ukraine, signs are emerging that Russian President Vladimir Putin has adopted a twin strategy: pledge his willingness to support a negotiated settlement, but continue funneling arms to separatist rebels.

    "Putin in the last several weeks has been playing a dual game," said Steven Pifer, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine and Brookings Institution senior fellow.

    "There have been things that suggest that Russia wants to help solve this diplomatically ... But you’ve continued to see evidence that Russians weapons are flowing into Ukraine."

    After months of bellicose rhetoric, Putin three weeks ago had Russia's parliament revoke his authority to use Russian military force in Ukraine. Then on Thursday, Putin issued a joint call with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande for a ceasefire in Ukraine.


    http://thefederalist.com/2014/04/17/...-useful-idiot/
    Time to wind up your operation and remove the rest of the fools from the game.

    I was leaning toward “traitor” from early on. While I was happy that some of the information on mass surveillance was leaked so the public could have an informed debate about it, I was suspicious of the fact that Snowden promptly decamped to China and then to Russia — two countries with long records of using surveillance as a means of oppressing their people, who were clearly interested only in using Snowden as a propaganda point against America. Which Snowden could have and should have known.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 16-07-2014 at 02:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Well Putin snookered Merkel. You would think she would play
    hardball with Putin and use the 'tactical advantage' to get
    Russian troops out of Ukraine without much fuss. Looks
    like he really makes her putty in his hands. Well I always
    said she was 'Honneckers Own'. I thought Germans could
    be a honest broker with Russia rather than falling for
    the Kremlin master spy. They are now second fiddle.
    When things go bad for Putin I wonder whats going
    to happen to her- left holding nothing...but a silly
    world cup. Simple minds Putin might say.


    Putin's scheming hand- look Angela your too stupid to handle military affairs- leave it to me. Germany was outplayed by Russia's 'red orchestra' during WWII and it seems again
    Germany has become subservient to Russian interests. So much for German ingenuity and idealogical independence for the democratic ideal.


    quote-
    Germany’s Angela Merkel has the reputation of a level-headed pragmatist, who grew up under communism, and understands Putin’s KGB Weltanschauung. True, she is constrained by a coterie of German Putin Versteher, who, due to financial and ideological interests, take Russia’s side in the battle for Ukraine. Merkel regrettably has taken to serving as Putin’s useful fool with her incessant demands for a peace settlement with separatist leaders before Ukraine, supposedly, lunges out of control. Putin has lobbied hard to stop Ukraine’s Anti-Terrorist Operation. He seems to have found an ally in Merkel. I must agree with the conclusion of the blogger, Streetwise Professor: If Angela Merkel is the Bad Cop, Putin Has It Made.

    Ukraine understands that Putin used the last cease fire to re-equip and fortify pro-Russian separatists. With Ukraine’s Anti-Terrorist Operation tightening the noose in Donetsk and Luhansk, by-stander Europe has no business pushing for a deal with “peace maker” Putin that he will never honor. For Putin, a cease fire is just a tactical trick to gain advantage.


    http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrode...ard-for-putin/
    She may be a politician but she has no military mind or is ignoring her military OCSE advisors- a real loose cannon.
    Putin is making a real fool of the soccer dimwit- maybe he's stroking her ego only to set her up later.

    quote-
    BERLIN — Chancellor Angela Merkel on Monday publicly expressed her government’s disapproval of the way nongovernmental organizations are treated by the Kremlin, and she did so in the presence of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, making her the first Western leader known to have told him so directly.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/09/wo...es-russia.html
    She may criticise from afar but she is weak in his presence. So much for German goods.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Orchestra_(espionage)
    Thats how Russia beat Germany sometimes without even firing a shot.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 16-07-2014 at 09:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    In boxing its getting your opponent off guard and winding him so he knows
    what It feels like to hurt. There must be lots of Rocky and Rambo
    fans in the Ukraine- ready to dish out some hurt to the invaders...

    quote-
    And if they had won! What a blessing for the poor embattled Ukrainians. What lives saved. As it is, Kyiv was granted some breathing space before and during the World Cup as Putin made a show of withdrawing support for the separatists. The Ukrainian military even scored some successes. That, and the Russian football team’s abject performance, needed redressing. Nothing displeases a semi-dictator more than losing control of the script. Indeed, one could argue that Ukraine’s President Poroshenko gratuitously provoked Mr.Putin by attacking the separatists.

    Here’s a point of view: None of this would have happened without the incessant post-Soviet provocation and humiliation of Russia. Nato, the West arming the Baltics, President Saakashvili of Georgia attacking South Ossetians, ***** Riot, homosexualists, Western intervention in Libya, the uprising against Putin’s ally Assad, the ousting of Yanukovich by Maidan riots – provocation without end. That, at least, is the narrative served up by Putin apologists in the West. But it won’t wash because it suggests that the Kremlin has merely reacted throughout. No. The fact is Putin’s interventions take weeks and months to prepare and not just logistically. They’re all about timing. Anyone who nails the timing so precisely so repeatedly that it begins to look embarrassingly predictable is not merely reacting. He’s making things happen.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/melikkay...nse-of-timing/
    Take his timing out and add some new formulas in the equation that Putin has not added
    his sums right- the chess board will then lose big pieces rapidly. The gamble should
    get more expensive for Putin- so should his 'operations' in the West.



    http://www.dw.de/ukrainians-see-merk...sia/a-17791208
    Soft on Russia or soft on 'Putin'?- Angela Merkel has some skeletons in the closet it seems- maybe some should shut her out
    of negotiations if any 'self interest' is involved- she may not be in Germanies best interests either. Well you guys don't
    want Americans involved and boy now your leader has some serious explaining or how might I say 'Putins bum-chums'
    may get some 'further scrutiny'. Im sure my OCSE friends are wondering if somebody like that is in the countries
    national interest...maybe Putin knows something about her the media does not want to talk about...Now if
    I was running intelligence at the end of 1991 it would be very easy to infiltrate the West- thinking the Cold War
    was over when it was um..you know...just on hold. She also betrays the Russian peoples hopes for freedom
    and thus becomes a enemy of democratic change in Russia- by her very presence...




    http://www.dailydot.com/politics/sno...vestigate-nsa/
    Edward Snowden thinks she is a Russian spy. Maybe this CIA expulsion was to cover her tracks...
    Maybe German OCSE troops should ask bigC to monitor her comings and goings...if she works
    for the Russians and their intelligence services...

    quote-
    By Joe Kloc on November 01, 2013 Email
    Early Friday morning, a letter began circulating on Twitter. Addressed to Germany’s chancellor Angela Merkel, it was purportedly written by National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden.

    The letter revealed that Snowden is willing to assist Germany in investigating NSA spying, but has concerns about his precarious legal status if he were to leave Russia, where he has temporary asylum. It's authenticity has since been confirmed by the Guardian.

    quote-
    But according to British newspaper interviews by Boris Karpichkov, a Soviet-Latvian intelligence major who worked for Moscow and defected to the United Kingdom in 1990s yet still retains contacts back home, the FSB (ex-KGB) targeted Snowden as many as six years ago. At the time, Snowden was working in Switzerland as a maintenance specialist the CIA’s computer security network there. (Recall that Snowden has always maintained that he is not the low-level contract employee that the great splash of media coverage has portrayed.)

    According to Karpichkov, Russian intelligence opened a file on him then, but refrained from contacting him directly until, posing as genuine diplomats, they visited him last year in Hong Kong, where they tricked him into flying to Moscow.
    Recall that Snowden’s passport was valid when he boarded in Hong Kong, but cancelled by the State Department before he landed in Moscow. Karpichkov says the FSB publicized Snowden’s flight while he was en route, in the hope of provoking the U.S. to revoke his passport, stranding him upon arrival. And that is what happened. If Snowden is correct that he was “trained as a spy” rather than being a low-level third-party contract employee, then Karpichkov’s story makes sense. But it also means that he has a lot more to tell the Russian intelligence services, including about U.S. encryption secrets, the sanctum sanctorum of the espionage business.

    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...570/story.html
    meet the real Edward Snowden working for blood and murder Putin- he does not give a **** about your so called 'freedoms' when he worked for Vladimir all along...

    http://www.independent.ie/world-news...-30473199.html
    She still panders to Putin while double crossing the Ukraine. Putins promises are cheap since the most
    important document ending the Cold War in Europe- The Budapest Agreement was broken and blackmail
    and mistrusted hopes will not appease a tyrant and she is doing a disservice to democracy by her
    tacitness. Lets hope her family becomes a victim of Putin but her support may ask many bad
    questions most Germans want to ask. She also must tacicty support the democratic crackdowns
    in Russia and freedom limitations and imprisonment for dissidents there as well. She has truly
    become a corrupted leader- shame on Germany for not exercising its true will. The CFE
    treaty broken in 2006 promises more trouble for Europe- well beyond any politicians weak
    hopes of peaceful appeasement of a tyrant. Maybe Merkel is jealous of Putins powers
    and wish she had the same. Maybe her children's bodies need to be scattered over
    fields instead. Russia respect for human life and dignity is small and Merkel is
    doing things contrary to many.


    heartless beast who can only make psychotic faces.His crackdowns on dissidents shows he is more worried
    about support at home crumbling like his Chechyan expeditions sound now like the Ukraine. The Cult of Putin
    is less stable than he is led to believe. Im sure even his top military men will question his own sanity
    is being undermined by his lusts/rage with his personal gains/missteps could destroy them all.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/postev...eck-out-of-me/
    Your a professor not a military man who does not know classic Cold War tactics.
    His aggressiveness and manipulations will be his downfall. If he pushes too
    far he will self destruct. The more scrutiny on Putin and his friends the better.

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/he...xt-move-2014-7
    Business insider- Putins cheerleaders. He has some economists on his side- interesting...globalist lackeys?
    Maybe we should target their assets as well- they speak for him afterall which is rather strange.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle19021604/
    http://www.thecommentator.com/articl...right_and_left
    Now start tormenting his 'fifth column' in the West- to really undermine him and control the debate...
    Admiring Putin as a brutal strongman is one thing and how he helped Russia from the drunk Yeltsin is another
    but befriending a guy who wants to turn you cities to ashes- makes his lackeys rather low IQ indeed.
    The Kremlins old plan was once they 'took over' he would exterminate his 'useful idiots' as they led
    straight back to him and his enablers.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 31-07-2014 at 01:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    We already knew this but for you folks- Russian seperatists openly recruit in Moscow.
    My evidence indicates MH307 was shot down by Russian PVO home defense not
    so called seperatists who would lack the skills operating the sophisticated
    SA-11 system which is multi-crew and requires some knowledge on how a radar
    operates which most soldiers as such would be out of their depth...the Western
    media has been reticent to indicate direct Russian involvement- I wonder why.
    Maybe some have been co-opted. The New York Times & The Guardian are
    acting strangely- maybe there jam packed with Russian agents...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Air_Defence_Forces

    quote-
    The Soviet Air Defence Forces (Russian: Войска ПВО, Voyska ProtivoVozdushnoy Oborony, Voyska PVO, V-PVO, lit. Anti-Air Defence Troops; and formerly ProtivoVozdushnaya Oborona Strany, PVO Strany, lit. Anti-Air Defence of the Nation) was the air defence branch of the Soviet Armed Forces. It continued being a service branch of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation from 1991 to 1998. Unlike Western air defence forces, V-PVO was a branch of the military unto itself, separate from the Soviet Air Force (VVS) and Air Defence Troops of Ground Forces. During the Soviet period it was generally ranked third in importance of the Soviet services,[1] behind the Strategic Rocket Forces and the Ground Forces.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...ters/13671139/

    quote-
    MOSCOW — Ukrainian rebels are openly recruiting fighters, raising money and collecting combat gear here in Russia's capital, even as the Kremlin denies backing the pro-Russia fighters.

    The recruiting office in Moscow for the Donetsk People's Republic doesn't have a street address, but volunteers can join by calling a number or writing an e-mail. Even the U.S. State Department acknowledged last month that the office exists and that Russia allowed it.

    Word of the recruiting effort is spread through colorful fliers and banners calling on Russians to "Join Strelkov's Army" — referring to Igor Strelkov, a former Russian security officer who heads the insurgency's militia — that are displayed at rallies in Moscow and are ubiquitous on the Internet.

    The recruiting comes as the Ukrainian military is intensifying its campaign against the pro-Russian insurgents and is closing in on the largest rebel stronghold of Donetsk in eastern Ukraine. At the same time, Russia has amassed about 20,000 combat-ready troops on Ukraine's eastern border, according to NATO.

    This ain't a proxy war- its a unoffical invasion...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 08-08-2014 at 08:07 PM.

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