+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 123

Thread: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

  1. #26
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Did the Cold War really end or did the press become too complacent/ignorant/foolish not to see signs of the opposite

    Like in the previous war in Georgia the Russian govt cannot be trusted especially in the media
    outlets who are currently sending troops while pretending nothing happens. These troops as
    a military strategist would imagine somehow 'accidently' leave there bases and make a 'defensive perimeter'
    or even conduct offensive operations against perceived opponent pre-emptively. Also now knowing
    the American military is closely watching signals traffic the Russians may then use other ways
    of conferring information that are not so easy to detect making a major military operation
    quite easily done without the West even knowing it...

    Russia is cleverly putting on a smokescreen while it quietly occupies strategic points in the Ukraine
    to give it a upper hand should a spetznaz black op may have unintended consequences....
    (notice the Russian army units lack markings which is evident some level of deception is involved
    clever military strategists would say that would be a great way to increase your numbers of special forces
    in regular infantry without the media even knowing like in Gerogia and no rank either strange.)

    If the Budapest agreement ends the Cold War begins again in earnest. The Russians
    obviously don't see what there doing at present as US bombers may start doing the
    Arctic runs again...which ended by SAC in 1991 ironically.

    A treaty signed in 1994 by the US and Britain could pull both countries into a war to protect Ukraine if President Putin's troops cross into the country.
    Bill Clinton, John Major, Boris Yeltsin and Leonid Kuchma – the then-rulers of the USA, UK, Russia and Ukraine - agreed to the The Budapest Memorandum as part of the denuclearization of former Soviet republics after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
    Technically it means that if Russia has invaded Ukraine then it would be difficult for the US and Britain to avoid going to war.
    Putin installed 150,000 troops along Ukraine's borders after the overthrow of Moscow ally Viktor Yanukovych by pro-European protesters.
    On Friday, as pro-Russia gunmen patrolled Crimean streets in armored vehicles and took over airports there, President Obama delivered a blunt warnings to Moscow.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2uf05jqHK

    In a military context, traffic analysis is a basic part of signals intelligence, and can be a source of information about the intentions and actions of the enemy.
    Representative patterns include:

    Able Archer 2014.

    Frequent communications — can denote planning
    Rapid, short, communications — can denote negotiations
    A lack of communication — can indicate a lack of activity, or completion of a finalized plan
    Frequent communication to specific stations from a central station — can highlight the chain of command
    Who talks to whom — can indicate which stations are 'in charge' or the 'control station' of a particular network. This further implies something about the personnel associated with each station
    Who talks when — can indicate which stations are active in connection with events, which implies something about the information being passed and perhaps something about the personnel/access of those associated with some stations
    Who changes from station to station, or medium to medium — can indicate movement, fear of interception

    'Towards a genuine partnership in a new area'- looks like we've been sold a fresh load of bull****.

    The spread of freedoms has been accompanied by new conflicts and the revival of old ones.
    Warfare in the CSCE region to achieve hegemony and territorial expansion continues to occur.

    Human rights and fundamental freedoms are still flouted, intolerance persists and discrimination
    against minorities is practised. The plagues of aggressive nationalism, racism, chauvinism,
    xenophobia, anti-semitism and ethnic tension are still widespread. Along with social and economic
    instability, they are among the main sources of crisis, loss of life and human misery. They reflect
    failure to apply the CSCE principles and commitments. This situation requires our resolute action.
    We must work together to ensure full respect for these principles and commitments as well as
    effective solidarity and co-operation to relieve suffering

    I thought the Coast Guard was under Ukrainian control not by the Russian Marines.
    This could get worse.

    Around 30 Russian marines surrounded the coast guard base in the Crimean city of Sevastopol on Friday, according to a statement by the Ukraine's state border guard.

    The statement, reported by The Associated Press, said the marines were paratroopers from the 810th brigade of Russia's Black Sea fleet and quoted them as saying they were there to prevent extremists seizing the base's weapons.

    The Russian defense ministry in Moscow did not comment, according to the AP.


    Russia and the west are on a collision course over Crimea after Moscow was accused of orchestrating a "military invasion and occupation" of the peninsula, as groups of apparently pro-Russian armed men seized control of two airports. Russian troop movements were reported across the territory.

    One Ukrainian official claimed late on Friday that 2,000 Russian troops had arrived in Crimea during the course of the day, in 13 Russian aircraft.

    Ukraine's acting president, Oleksandr Turchynov, addressed the nation and accused Russia of carrying out a similar strategy to 2008, when it in effect annexed two Georgian territories, Abkhazia and South Ossetia. "They are trying to provoke a military conflict and are creating a scenario identical to the Abkhaz one, when having provoked a conflict, they annexed territory," he said.

    You would not thinking the Russians would not put up fighter cover for transport planes landing at particular airfields..

    No second cold war- maybe thats classic Eastern European for double-speak.

    Putin's macho image should not deceive us; neither should his statements lamenting the end of the Soviet Union (those keen to take his word for it should try to reconcile their literalism with their usual insistence that he is a deceitful scion of the KGB). The best analogy for him is not a post-1945 cold war warrior but a pre-1917 national imperialist. Quite plausibly, he would like to see himself as reviving Russia's greatness without actually relapsing into a cold war which, after all, he witnessed Russia lose. This makes Ukraine even more important for him because he perceives it not simply as part of the short-lived Soviet experiment, but of either Russia, or Russia's Huntingtonian zone of civilisational hegemony. That is wrong too, but the problem is Putin thinks he is right.

    There are no simple solutions. Western warnings to Putin are necessary. But if they come without any face-saving offers, they will be worse than useless. Moreover, those urging the west to scare the imperialism out of Russia should also warn the new Ukrainian leadership that, while Crimea is indeed Ukrainian, restraint is urgently needed.

    Russia Eastern Europe stand-over tactics will backfire badly. I wonder if they know other military personnel could be reading what he
    says and respond likewise. Pravda televising threats live from Moscow. Cold War it is.

    Tactical nuclear weapons that are constantly threatening the United States must become the factor that will deter large-scale aggression. Holding it at gunpoint - this is the deterrent," General Colonel in reserve, MGIMO Professor, Leonid Ivashov, said in an interview with Pravda.Ru editor-in-chief Inna Novikova.

    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 01-03-2014 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Paul Bremmer should be disciplined for his foolish comments (US State Dept joke)

  2. #27
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Putin is up to his old lies again. Leopards never change their spots.
    Sarah Palin was right she can see Russian bombers going far from their home bases.
    Now nobodies laughing its all very serious indeed. Tactics have changed so have we.
    America better wake up to itself before war between NATO and Russia breaks out.
    NATO should adopt a posture similar to mass tank incursions in the Warsaw Pact
    in 83. The Russians Govt only understand fear and intimidation as Patton said their
    mentality is like the Mongols who slaughtered the Chinese so badly they built
    up a wall to try and keep them out. I wonder how China views the Ukraine
    and the less defended areas of Russia's underbelly. Russia may make a show
    of force their considering all the oil and gas wealth there. Or somebody else might...

    What NATO needs is a massive trans-Atlantic military airlift like in the 80's any time
    Chernenko's words exceeded his logic...

    I think wonderful Sarah can replace all those worthless 'yellow press' jounos who did not see this coming back in 2006 !

    Foreign Minister Andriy Deshchytsya said he had met European and US officials and sent a request to NATO to "examine all possibilities to protect the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine". Putin's move was a direct rebuff to Western leaders who had repeatedly urged Russia not to intervene, including US President Barack Obama, who just a day before had held a televised address to warn Moscow of "costs" if it acted. Armed servicemen stand outside a Ukrainian border guard post in the Crimean town of Balaclava. Photo: Reuters
    Troops with no insignia on their uniforms but clearly Russian - some in vehicles with Russian number plates - have already seized Crimea, an isolated peninsula in the Black Sea where Moscow has a large military presence in the headquarters of its Black Sea Fleet.

    Kiev's new authorities have been powerless to stop them. The Russian forces solidified their control of Crimea and unrest spread to other parts of Ukraine on Saturday. Pro-Russian demonstrators clashed, sometimes violently, with supporters of Ukraine's new authorities and raised the Russian flag over government buildings in several cities.
    "This is probably the most dangerous situation in Europe since the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968," said a Western official on condition of anonymity.
    "Realistically, we have to assume the Crimea is in Russian hands. The challenge now is to deter Russia from taking over the Russian-speaking east of Ukraine."
    Putin asked parliament to approve force "in connection with the extraordinary situation in Ukraine, the threat to the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation, our compatriots" and to protect the Black Sea Fleet in Crimea.The upper house swiftly delivered a unanimous "yes" vote, shown live on television. Western capitals scrambled for a response, but it was limited to words. A US official said Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel had spoken to his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu. The official said there had been no change in US military posture.
    EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton urged Moscow not to send troops. Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said this would be "clearly against international law". Czech President Milos Zeman likened the crisis to the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia.

    "Urgent need for de-escalation in Crimea," tweeted NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen. "NATO allies continue to coordinate closely."
    Putin said his request for authorisation to use force in Ukraine would last "until the normalisation of the socio-political situation in that country".
    His justification - the need to protect Russian citizens - was the same as he used to launch a 2008 invasion of Georgia, where Russian forces seized two breakaway regions and recognised them as independent.

    So far there has been no sign of Russian military action in Ukraine outside Crimea, the only part of the country with a Russian ethnic majority, which has often voiced separatist aims.
    A potentially bigger risk would be conflict spreading to the rest of Ukraine, where the sides could not be easily kept apart.


    Looks like Russia want to make its ethnic population trying to make 'enclaves' a repeat of the Bosnian War in the 1990'
    in slow motion. A long slow war like Bosnia/Chechnya they will be unable to win. They should have stayed back in the barracks and their
    borders as expansionism is always doomed to fail. This time it may be payback. Yanukovich is a target and Putin personally
    now also will be if makes any moves on the Ukraine...The Russian military should think long and hard
    before 'Kamakarzie'. Then who knows what will happen. Don't discount the Fulda Gap scenario either-
    just a uplanded land-sea-air-space warfare in the 21st century. Russia wants better be careful
    what it wishes for as history often notes those who start wars often end up loosing them...the old
    saying win the battle lose the war.

    Putin is now very vulnerable. HIs failure in the Ukraine may spread to far more vulnerable regions.

    Even so, Ukraine had no realistic contingency plan for a Russian takeover of Crimea, given the size of Russian forces legitimately based there, Mr. Sutyagin said. But he also said that he doubted that Russian forces would intervene elsewhere in Ukraine, because Russian forces would be too stretched to control much territory and even in the largely pro-Russia east, Ukrainian forces would be expected to fight back, aided by self-defense militias and partisans.

    Matthew Clements, editor of Jane’s Intelligence Review, said that while the Ukrainian military was largely underfunded, “in a major land war, it would be fighting on reasonable terms,” and was “far more capable than the Georgian army.” Any major conflict with Ukraine, he said, “would also expose a lot of key weaknesses in the Russian army.”


    Yes the US miitary is not stupid its monitoring forums in Russia for idle chit chat on 'idle' movements. Thanks for the tip.

    Would you let a man who cannot control his anger in public to run a country? Shows how deluded Russia has become since the 90's
    when it was far more well behaved.

    Russia should know the dangers of ethno-politicisation as much as the EU does.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 02-03-2014 at 12:06 PM.

  3. #28
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Things have deteriorated rapidly- NATO is probably on very high alert. I suppose
    other units should monitor things as well. Russia should realise the Budapest Agreement
    is like that for Taiwan, cross that line no more Mr nice guy.


    The Budapest Memorandum, signed by Britain, Ukraine, the United States and Russia, agreed to uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine's borders.

    Now Ukraine have called on Britain to keep up its end of the bargain.

    Article one of the agreement reads: "The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine ... to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine."

    The call comes after the Russian government unanimously approved the deployment of Russian troops to the Crimea.

    Prime Minister David Cameron has warned Russian President Vladimir Putin that there is "no excuse" for military intervention.

    He said: "Everyone must think carefully about their actions and work to lower, not escalate tensions.

    "The world is watching."


    President Obama promised Friday there would be “costs” if Russia moved troops into Ukraine, but he didn’t specify what those costs might be. Sen. John McCain has several suggestions for Obama, including the sanctioning of high-level Russian officials; restarting missile defense plans in Eastern Europe; and bringing Georgia, a former Soviet republic, into NATO. McCain plans to push from the Congressional side, he told The Daily Beast in an exclusive interview Saturday evening.

    McCain wants the administration to expand its threat to pull out of the G8 Summit in Sochi scheduled for June. That limited move is unlikely to convince Putin to give up his control of Crimea, where Russia has its 15,000-man strong Black Sea Fleet and where unmarked but Russian-controlled paramilitary troops control the two main airports.

    “I think Obama’s threat is laughable,” McCain said. “But I think we ought to do it and every other international gathering of leaders, because the one thing that Putin enjoys is strutting on the international stage.”

    McCain added that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton -- who inaugurated the Obama administration’s “reset” of relations with Russia in 2009 -- had totally misjudged Russia.

    “Of course she got it wrong,” said McCain. “She believed that somehow there would be a reset with a guy who was a KGB colonel who always had ambitions to restore the Russian empire. That’s what this is all about.”

    Next, McCain wants the administration to more broadly apply a law that enables the U.S. government to sanction Russian officials guilty of human rights violations. The Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law and Accountability Act, which Obama signed into law in 2012, has so far only been used against low-level Russian officials. But McCain said that if top Russian officials were involved in the decision to send troops into Ukraine, they should be added to the list as well, which would subject them to visa bans, asset freezes, and international scorn.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 02-03-2014 at 04:38 PM.

  4. #29
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Russian enclaves sounds like Hitlers German enclaves during WWII. Foolish. Russia wants
    its Lebensraum by for what?

    Putin divides and conquers and tries to forment a cultural war so he can make
    a excuse to send his troops in. New goverenors im sure will stir up 'mad WWII'
    relics to try and rustle up the crowd and kill 'outsiders'. Weather the FSB
    will resort to such tactics remains to be seen by triggering it could
    backfire in their face. Same tactics were used by South Ossetia
    against Georgia. Game- set and match.

    Ukraine is prepared for full scale war all reservists are to report...
    Poland goes on alert on its borders, Hungary will soon follow.
    No stray recon planes or helicopters...


    According to Ukrainian news media reports, grenades and light arms were used in an assault on an army base in the Sevastopol suburb of Belbek this morning. One officer was reportedly wounded and ‘non Ukrainian’ soldiers have taken control of the facility. There are also reports a telecommunications building in Dzhankoi has also been seized.
    There are unconfirmed reports that troops are digging trenches on the narrow isthmus which connects the Crimean peninsula with the remainder of Ukraine at Armyansk.
    Outrage over Russia’s military moves mounted in world capitals, with US Secretary of State John Kerry calling on President Vladimir Putin to pull back from “an incredible act of aggression.’’
    European governments are scrambling to form a unified response to the occupation, with several emergency sessions of NATO and EU leadership groups underway.

    Sarah Palin is right again you Trotsky trolls. Let her bask in the glory while her detractors run for cover as the 'fallout' in journalism now begins.

    This reporter does have some 'dirty' laundry. The Ukraine is far more powerful than some reporters big mouth. I'll keep a eye on him. Classic intimidatory communist double-speak by a yellow press reporter. Russian govt sponsored 'nematodes' running to their masters aid in a crisis perhaps? The KGB always had a soft spot for Western journalists.

    We have been here before though, sort of. The somewhat similar scenario of the Georgia-Russia war in August 2008 came and went with little impact. The Dow Jones Index bumbled along that month while Wall Street was building towards its own much greater crisis – Lehman Brothers collapsed the next month.

    Quote II-
    Atleast the British agree with me that 'their wild colonial boys' need a education into Russian psychological warfare which is running 'flat chat' at present.

    Russian psychological warfare from a US Military perspective.

    Thats a German tourist bus not Russian. As we can see the FSB are masters of indimidation and subterfuge.


    "Back in 2008, I accurately predicted the possibility of Putin feeling emboldened to invade Ukraine because I could see what kind of leader Barack Obama would be,” she said. “The bullies of the world are always emboldened by indecision and moral equivalence. We can expect more of this sort of thing in a world where America is gutting its military and 'leading from behind.'"

    As usual, Palin is nothing if not controversial, and she delights in tweaking the “lamestream media.”

    Official Russian TV channel Rossiya 1 has given strong indications that further military action will follow after Moscow strengthened its armed forces' presence in Crimea and Russia's upper house of parliament unanimously voted to endorse Vladimir Putin's use of troops in Ukraine.

    In a special edition of its flagship current-affairs programme Vesti Nedeli (News of the Week) on 2 March, controversial anchor Dmitry Kiselev was dismissive of Western threats of diplomatic isolation for Russia and of the new Ukrainian government's decision to mobilise its armed forces.

    "I don't want to offend anyone, but the best that can said for the Ukrainian army is that there isn't one," Kiselev sneered.

    I agree America should decare financial warfare on Russia. Your socio-globalists game plan is -over. I knew the financial
    crisis before it started in 2008. Funny my advisors were Taiwanese, Singaporean, Polish, Hungarian & Sweedish press could
    all see it coming but 'other' press reporters in the West never did. Very strange behaviour...Kiselev comments about
    NATO are even more dangerous. Russian media sanctioning this **** shows how brainwashed and dangerous
    they can be.

    Time to go one full alert.

    * In the military sphere, these include ordering the Supreme Headquarters, Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE), led by U.S. General Phil Breedlove, to conduct prudent planning and present options in response to the situation. While such planning should be left to the current commanders and military experts, some ideas to consider would include:
    Increasing all intelligence-gathering functions through satellite, Predator unmanned vehicles, and especially cyber.

    * Using the NATO-Ukrainian Council and existing military partnerships with the Ukrainian military to share information, intelligence, and situational awareness with authorities in Kiev.
    Providing advice to Ukrainian armed forces to prepare and position themselves in the event of further conflict.

    * Developing NATO contingency plans to react to full-scale invasion of Ukraine and to a partial invasion likely of Crimea. NATO contingen
    cy planning can be cumbersome, but in Libya it moved quickly.

    * Assigning one of the NATO Joint Force Commands (either Naples, Italy, or Brunsum, Netherlands) into direct overwatch of the situation.

    * Standing up NATO crisis centers to full manning, especially at SHAPE and the relevant Joint Force Command.
    * Ensuring that the Land and Maritime Component Commands (Northwood in the United Kingdom and Izmir, Turkey, respectively) are conducting prudent planning in their areas of expertise and feeding their analysis to the Joint Force Command.

    * Bringing the NATO Response Force, a 25,000 man sea, air, land, special forces capability to a higher state of alert.

    * Convening allies with cyber-capabilities (this is not a NATO specialty) to consider options -- at a minimum to defend Ukraine if it is attacked in this domain (as Georgia was).
    * Sailing NATO maritime forces into the Black Sea and setting up contingency plans for their use.

    I agree move now before the Russians can dig in any further.

    No G8 for you its now G7.


    Now, having warned Moscow that intervention would incur costs and having been ignored, the United States and its allies must quickly act to make good on the president’s warning. But the policy process cannot stop there. It is not too late to think ahead and plan for predictable contingencies. In addition to punishing Russia for its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty, whether through sanctions or related steps, we must consider how to halt any further advance of Russian forces and respond to possible Russian counterreactions such as threats to cut off natural gas supplies to Europe.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 03-03-2014 at 07:40 PM.

  5. #30
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...


    Ukraine's military says Russia has given its forces an ultimatum to surrender in Crimea or face an all-out assault on the strategic Black Sea peninsula that's been overrun by Kremlin-backed troops. But Russia's Black Fleet swiftly denied any such demand and the country's parliament speaker said there was no need yet for Moscow to use its right to launch military action in Ukraine. Regional Ukrainian defence ministry spokesman Vladyslav Seleznyov told AFP in the Crimean capital Simferopol the ultimatum is to recognise the new Crimean authorities, lay down their weapons and leave, or be ready for an assault.

    much better SMH its good to care about your neighbours considering your 'overbearing' neighbour in the North West...

    This obviously shows the lack of Russian discipline/cohesion in its senior officer class and how one silly
    hothead can make a full scale war. It was not uncommon during the Cold War days so this 'double-speak'
    must be closely watched and examined. There is nothing worse a commander giving orders to a sub-ordinate to carry
    out tasks and then see them done differently to what was anticipated- or it may be deliberate..acting
    like invading Mongols instead. Though in the sub-ordinate defence the battlefield is 'fluid' that one
    should not use all its advantages while they have the advantage? Yes as we can see it balances
    out on classic Warsaw Pact tactics...

    War grows closer ( I notice a few websites have gone offline what has Gen. Patton told the naive about cyber-security)
    Russia wants all of Crimea and not realising the ramification of the 1994 agreement will lead to all out war.
    Looks like they don't care. So be it. Threatening cyber attacks on US Central Command may
    lead to much greater escalation that the Russians can imagine.

    I have noticed a few websites should consider where there hosted and how secure they are.
    Silence on the battlefield is obviously a indicator that special forces/armor and air defense assets
    may be moving around the Crimea or even further.

    From what I have been told most units in the Ukraine appear to be conscripts
    but now they are being backed up by more battle-hardened units who served
    in Georgia & Chechnya so it indicates by the selection of soldiers that this
    ain't no Russian peacekeeping operation but a very tactful use of a army to
    grab land before anybody can retaliate.

    The troops are now frolicking outside now its time for them to go back to your base and settle down there a bit. You have 24 hours to do so
    or things may start getting much worse.

    The European Union has condemned "acts of aggression" against Ukraine and threatened Russia with sanctions unless Russian troops are returned to their barracks in Crimea before Thursday. During a tense, emergency meeting of European foreign ministers in Brussels on Monday East European countries, led by Poland and Lithuania, pushed hard for a strong EU commitment to take action against Russia.
    In a further development last night, Poland called an emergency meeting of Nato ambassadors for Tuesday on the basis of a clause in the military Alliance allowing members to "request consultations whenever their territorial integrity, political independence or security is threatened". European divisions over Russia were highlighted when Germany watered down an EU statement condemning the Russian seizure of Crimea as an "invasion" and delayed a decision on kicking Russian out of the G8 or further sanctions until an emergency summit of European leaders on Thursday. David Lidington, the Europe minister, attended the EU meeting while William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, led crisis talks in Kiev. He expressed concern over reports that Russia was stepping up its military presence and operation.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 04-03-2014 at 10:22 AM.

  6. #31
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Russia is stupid to think there will be any diplomacy till all troops leave Crimea.
    They still won't recognise the Kiev separation so their opposition is moot.
    Ukraine will not be a satellite of the crime riddled gangster govt any more.
    They voted for military intervention of the Ukraine in the Duma so I don't
    trust what a foreign affairs spokesperson sweet-talking the Russian military
    on aggressive maneavers. Id rather speak with a Russian General
    on the ground and also the Naval Commander at Crimea before any
    such assurances can be given. UN Troops should patrol the area
    to major sure 'unmarked soldiers' in civillian garb are not on
    offensive operations to destabilise the region.

    Th 1994 agreement was the end of the last Cold War and now will be the beginning
    of the next. They should not made the threats they did without realising the
    devastating blow back that will now follow. I think the rule for anything
    out of Russia is not just trust but verify but also make sure it never
    happens again. That means Putin and his cronies are no longer considered
    the legitimate rulers of Russia. Don't just kick them out of the G7, deny
    them any military exchanges and make everything with Russian involvement
    globally go to ruin just like in 1991. No turning back. Russia cannot lie
    its way back to friendship with the US- the bridges are burning and
    sinking into the Dnieper. Go help North Korea out with the EMP bomb program
    instead and be the double-dealing crooks they were world famous for.


    Lets cut Russia off the internet. Im sick of their excuses and threats. They can phone
    the US Military to make threats directly with instead of diplomats and couriers
    who seem to be easily fooled. We don't need Chamberlains in foreign affairs.

    Well, well well China is running to their old commie buddies aid as their tactics in the S.China sea seem awfully familiar.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 04-03-2014 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Ronald Reagan should give Pres. Obama a call from the grave...

  7. #32
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Is this the way the Russian military wants to be portrayed?. Not as a liberator but as a oppressor. Due to the deliberate
    use of Russia of not putting on military insignia the difference between regulars and irregulars is very blurred.

    Ukrainian soldiers unarmed meet Russians in the Crimea and the Russians almost over-react.
    It will be the ground commanders and their crazy undisciplined militias that have a hand in this conflict
    not getting out of control. Russia should keep its auxillary forces not marching with its
    regular army as they lack disipline/self-control and could easily over-react. The South
    Ossetians irregulars encouraged by the Russian Govt afterall provoked the Georgians into
    a response- so we must be mindful of these elements very well.

    Russian Govt denial over Yanakovich will make reconcilliation with Ukraine much harder.
    Vladamir Putin treating the Ukraine like its silly little brother won't work if he cannot let its
    little brother think for itself. The US does not militarily interfere in Mexico affairs (even with all the problems)
    as much Russia does with the Ukraine. Ukraine is Russia's bridge to Europe and its
    to burn if it does not think wisely.

    also a phallic display of power by Moscows nuclear force which does not help things either. Russian missile
    command must know it could easily overwhelm the US missile shield by weight of numbers and how its pointed
    at the Middle East more unstable powers (Iran whom Russia supports) makes this crisis cover the entire
    region a escalation rather than the opposite.

    Yes in America there was considerable constenation on going to Iraq maybe the Russian people
    are concerned which direction their leaders are taking them- into a direct confrontation with the West.

    Classic poker faced Putin stare. A Canadian viewpoint on whats going on his mind to forget a major treaty.
    Sort of like the ones signed at the end of every major war- to prevent the next one from occuring.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 05-03-2014 at 02:30 PM.

  8. #33
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Du-e to Russia not meeting UN envoy in Crimea a few F-16's and
    F-15's are thrown back at classic how might I say Fulda Gap strategies.


    The US bolstered its military forces across Eastern Europe on Thursday and imposed its first sanctions in an effort to force Russia to scale back its intervention in Ukraine.

    As European leaders met in Brussels, President Barack Obama denounced plans for a referendum on whether the occupied Crimea region should join Russia as “a violation” of international law.

    “We are well beyond the days when borders can be redrawn over the heads of democratic leaders,” he said.

    The US sent six F-15 fighter jets to join Nato air patrols over the Baltic states in a show of strength intended to reassure its eastern European allies and send a signal to the Kremlin.

    A further dozen F-16 fighters and 300 troops will deploy to Poland next week as part of a military training exercise expanded in response to the Russian incursion in Ukraine.

    A US destroyer will also be deployed to the Black Sea as part of a routine exercise.


    nato no longer on talking terms with Russia

    NATO will also increase military assistance to Ukraine, Mr. Rasmussen said, adding that he would meet Thursday with Ukraine’s President.

    “We will strengthen our efforts to build the capacity of the Ukrainian military, including with more joint training and exercises,” he said.

    As a result of Moscow’s intransigence, Mr. Rasmussen said, NATO is cutting Russia out of what was supposed to be the alliance’s first joint mission: the military escort for a U.S. ship that will to destroy Syria’s chemical weapons.

    Ukrainians should read about the Finn's who also fought Russia- and won- also at the Winter Olympics too..numbers
    mean nothing if you have home field advantage...


    Putin’s invasion is profoundly unlawful, as it constitutes the introduction of military troops into a sovereign territory without governmental invitation or consent, and the absence of identifying insignia puts this invasion outside the protections of the Geneva Conventions and the rules of war. Hence the Russian troops are legally fair game for Ukrainian troops and civilian militias. But don’t expect that to happen. Russia has two times the number of tanks as Ukraine, 10 times the troops and 12 times the air power.


    sanctions now apply with Russia

    Obama ordered sanctions on those responsible for Moscow's military intervention in Ukraine, including bans on travel to the United States and freezing of their U.S. assets.

    He echoed European Union leaders and the pro-Western government in Ukraine in declaring that the proposed referendum would violate international law.

    Obama also held a one-hour call on Thursday with Russian President Vladimir Putin, their second phone conversation in the past six days, and urged him to accept the terms of a potential diplomatic solution to the crisis.

    The sudden acceleration of moves to bring Crimea, which has an ethnic Russian majority and has effectively been seized by Russian forces, formally under Moscow's rule came as EU leaders held an emergency summit, groping for ways to pressure Russia to back down and accept mediation.

    Russian soldiers acting all 'gangsta thug' like with international observers from OCSE. Never trusted Russia anyway.
    Lets those barbarians lack of control & act that way and go down the path of international isolation. If you look closely
    at the pro-Russian protests the KGB has put in agitators who appear at more than one protest (as the BBC shows)
    to spread far against Ukrainians who are more afriad of the Russians than the Russians are afraid and angry. America
    is cranky about crime and corruption in Mexico- yet no US Military invasion in sight- after all there are allot more ways to
    influence another countries thinking than having a army there to fullfill your needs.

    Russia was introduced to the G7 in 1998 and that was a bad and misguided
    decision, We should domore than sanctions on Russia & China we should teach them both a
    lesson. We should not reward aggression with favourable trade and business deals when they are practising economic
    /cyber/asymmetric warfare on us. The only people worried about the Cold War coming back are some economists and
    investors with too much money invested in Russia or China...they should know better. Though I suppose there
    were many US, Canadaian, British, Australian and others who invested in German and Japanese companies
    prior to the war so the anxiety on their part is nothing last forever especially when countries use their more economic
    wealth to increase defense GDP...

    I agree with Merkel. He was condesending toward her as well as Hillary so I think this Putin
    chracter needs to put on a smarten up or things may get much worse for his own friends...
    He is living in 'another world'. For those not know what the term 'another world' means is that the
    Cold War in 1991 did not end. Fine. Change of plan.

    Vladimir Putin has lost the plot over Ukraine, according to the German chancellor, Angela Merkel.

    US reports said Merkel phoned Barack Obama on Sunday evening after speaking to the Russian president to press him to back down from his invasion of Ukraine and occupation of the Crimean peninsula.

    "She was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said. 'In another world,' she said," the New York Times reported.

    The vast gap between Putin's and the west's perceptions of what is taking place in Ukraine is adding to the pressure on the White House to take the lead in what US experts are calling the defining international crisis of Barack Obama's two terms. Senior US administration officials concede that Putin has taken total control of Crimea.

    EU foreign ministers gather in Brussels for an emergency meeting on Monday. Nato, also in Brussels, is expected to issue a damning statement on Russia. But the Europeans and the Americans already appear divided and there are also splits among European allies, encouraging the Kremlin to believe that the response from the west will be less than overwhelming.

    While Washington is threatening to kick Russia out of the G8 group of leading world economies, Berlin is opposed to this move. The EU foreign ministers are unlikely to get very far in agreeing on economic sanctions against Russia, while John Kerry, the US secretary of state, has spoken of a punitive package aimed at Russia's economic isolation.

    Kerry is expected in Kiev on Monday where the foreign secretary, William Hague, described Ukraine as "certainly the biggest crisis in Europe in the 21st century".

    Speaking to the BBC from Kiev, Hague said Russia could face "significant diplomatic and economic costs" unless it stops threatening the integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine. Putin needs to return his forces to their barracks in Crimea, he added.

    He also urged Russia and Ukraine to start a direct dialogue. Similar calls have come from Washington and it may be that the EU meeting offers to mediate between the two sides, although Putin will be wary of Europe playing the peacebroker, as it has been an integral factor in the conflict since the Ukrainian crisis erupted in November when the toppled president Viktor Yanukovych ditched trade and political pacts with Brussels.

    A new frontier has been laid down within Europe as Russian forces laid landmines at the top of the Crimean peninsula and fired warning shots at a European observer mission.



    As President Obama observed on Thursday, any debate over Crimea’s future necessarily requires a prominent role for the Ukraine government, and that is not what Vladimir Putin and the pro-Russian agitators in Crimea have in mind. For them, think Austria in 1938.

    The Anschluss, as it became known, was the illegal German occupation and annexation of its neighbor Austria. It’s not a perfect analogy, but close enough to justify comparisons between Russia’s maneuvers today and those of prewar Nazi Germany. Back then a March referendum on the question of annexation was rendered moot when, a day before the planned vote, Austrian Nazis seized control of the government. Soon after, German troops entered Austria and a phony vote was held, upholding the annexation of their country. Germany cynically claimed that more than 99 percent of Austrians voted in favor of the loss of their sovereignty.

    If that’s what Putin and his supporters have in mind for Crimea, there is little that anyone else can do about it. Indeed, it’s easy to imagine that this was the endgame that Putin had in mind when he interfered last year with Ukraine’s plans to form a closer alliance with the European Union. This, after all, is the man who still grieves over the breakup of the Soviet Union.

    Adolph Hitler vows to retake the Ukraine this time from inside Moscow.
    You'd think Yanakovich would be a international embarrassment but
    since he is so close with Putin they would probably take each other
    down. Interesting game in the Duma. I think he is suffering from
    the dreaded Col, Ghadaffi disorder where he thinks his people
    love him when its exactly the opposite and for being tried
    for war crimes in the Hague.

    Ousted leader Viktor Yanukovych insisted on Tuesday that he remained Ukraine's legitimate president and commander-in-chief, saying he would return to Kiev and appealing to the armed forces to defy any "criminal orders" handed down by his foes.

    They are truly delusional is Moscow these days. Maybe Russia had a part in the
    War in Bosnia it does not want to talk about either.

    There must be allot of planes around to send a AWACS to monitor

    NATO will start reconnaissance flights over Poland and Romania to monitor the situation in neighboring Ukraine where Russian forces have taken control of Crimea, the alliance said on Monday. Ukraine is not a NATO member but Russia's intervention in Crimea has alarmed neighboring countries, including alliance members that used to be dominated by the Soviet Union.

    Acting on a recommendation from the alliance's top military commander, U.S. Air Force General Philip Breedlove, NATO ambassadors gave the go-ahead to the AWACS flights, a NATO spokesman said. AWACS (airborne early warning and control) planes will fly from their home airbases in Geilenkirchen, Germany, and Waddington in Britain, the spokesman said.

    To justify its invasion of Crimea, the Kremlin and state-run media went into full fabrication mode this weekend. Here are the lies that Russia is telling its viewers back home. Russia invaded Ukraine over the weekend, justifying its incursion by claming it needed to protect Crimea’s ethnic Russian population from supposed neo-Nazi extremists. This was pure propaganda, of course—Vladmir Putin has been keen to annex land that used to be part of Russia, as he did in Georgia in 2008, and seems to think that the Ukrainian army will and should immediately surrender to the Russian one.

    Still, Putin needed a story to spin, no matter how full of holes, and thus the neo-Nazi claims. But as it turns out, Crimea’s streets are not exactly paved with extremists—a fact that has proven troublesome for Russian state TV channels looking to find token far-right bogeymen. They’ve had to resort to tricks to get the right characters for Russian audiences—making much, for instance, of Sachko Bilyi, a buffoon who visited a local parliament with his AK-47 machine gun. No one in Ukraine thinks much of Bilyi, other than that he’s a clown, but Russian TV is now claiming that squads made up of thousands of Bilyis are terrorizing Ukraine’s civilians and intimidating MPs.

    The Russian media also reported on “skirmishes” on the streets of Crimea and showed a video about “extremists in Crimea attacking Russian soldiers.” As it turns out, the video was actually made on February 20, when close to 100 protesters, aid workers and journalists were shot by snipers in Kiev. That day, several cameramen filmed the terror on location—one of them standing nearby for a very long time. When his video surfaced on Russian TV, purporting to be from Crimea, it made many suspect that the cameraman was from Russia and that Russian journalists may have had an arrangement with the snipers so that they wouldn’t draw fire.


    Tear down this new wall.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 13-03-2014 at 04:50 PM.

  9. #34
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Still, U.S. and allied intelligence officials said they are concerned about the Russian military buildup on Ukraine’s eastern border and reports that some irregular forces are infiltrating cities in eastern Ukraine. The officials said it’s unclear whether the actions are preparations for a military assault, an effort at intimidation, a move to foment unrest and manufacture a pretext for Russian intervention in eastern cities such as Donetsk and Kharkiv, or some combination of all three.

    One official, who like the others requested anonymity to discuss classified intelligence assessments, said that based on Russia’s moves in Crimea, an unprovoked invasion of eastern Ukraine is considered less likely than what he called creeping annexation justified by claims -- rejected by a UN official who visited the region -- that pro-Russia Ukrainians are threatened by fascist sympathizers in the country.

    US-Russia talks- fail.


    The United States will on Thursday send six additional F-15 fighter jets to step up Nato air patrols over the Baltic states, mission host Lithuania said as West-Russia tensions simmered over Ukraine.
    “I have had confirmation that the air police missions will be reinforced by six additional F-15 fighters,” Defence Minister Juozas Olekas told reporters.
    The move is a response to “Russian aggression in Ukraine and additional military activity in the Kaliningrad region,” Russia’s exclave bordering Lithuania and Poland, he said.

    While some may think Russian troops/tanks are bad being vulnerable
    to a air attack is something NATO planners never forgot.
    Bring the A-10 out of retirement the SR-71 was once given
    a repreive as well.


    Kasparov knows best. You'd don't double cross and live in his old game...


    Strange that. Both articles seem to be at opposites with ones another.

    Obviously Downing Street is not as powerful as it used to be. Caving in to dirty Russian money interests must be their weakness.
    The name Londonograd now exists thanks to this money flowing through it veins...but they had the Cambridge 5 as well.
    Well being middleman to the devil is fatal I thought I should remind them that. Well its the 21st century and countries
    can have their national securities compromised by large foreign sums in accounts doing the talking....sweet talking.

    It started with Benghazi. I agree. That breach of security has everybody worried. The Republicans run foreign policy
    better than Democrats. Not since the failed Iran hostage rescue has something appeared that defied ability
    of those on task where not prepared for any eventualities...the Carter Syndrome.

    But, in an interview with the Tulsa World newspaper published this week, Sen. James Inhofe of Oklahoma made clear he thinks US President Barack Obama should increase pressure by sending some of America’s most-advanced fighter jet, the F-22, to Poland. That’s not so far from Ukraine. He also wants Obama to send some Navy warships equipped with the Aegis combat system, called by many analysts the world’s finest, into the Baltic and Black seas. Inhofe also wants to begin sending US natural gas to European Union member states to weaken Putin’s leverage over them, which other lawmakers and experts are advocating.

    Russia has moved its mobile nuclear weapons (satellites can see you know) America deploys F-22's & Aegis fair enough.

    Konashenkov declined to provide details on the number of deployed missiles or their specific locations.

    The Australians only seem interested if their bellies are to be fed and not those stuck in a new warzone and dying in their thousands or millions.
    Obviously food security or energy security did'nt figure highly for their govt.

    Mr Obama said a diplomatic resolution "cannot be achieved while Russian military forces continue their incursions into Ukrainian territory and that the large-scale Russian military exercises on Ukraine's borders only exacerbate the tension", the White House said in a statement.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 17-03-2014 at 04:22 PM.

  10. #35
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Russian soldiers kill 1 Ukrainian soldier and wound two others.
    This situation is spiralling towards war and perhaps even regional
    war considering it could spill over.

    The crisis in Crimea has shifted “to a military stage” as the Ukrainian government responded to the killing of one its soldiers by authorising its troops to open fire to defend themselves from Russian forces. Hours after Vladimir Putin formally announced the annexation of the occupied Crimea region into Russia, a Ukrainian soldier was apparently shot dead as pro-Kremlin forces stormed an army base.

    As tensions rapidly escalated on the ground, the US warned Mr Putin he was on “the wrong side of history” and Britain announced the suspension of all military cooperation with Moscow. Joe Biden, the US vice-president, said America was considering sending additional troops to the Baltics to reassure its Eastern European allies in the face of Russian aggression. The Ukrainian soldier’s death, the first fatality since Russian forces moved into Crimea last month, was immediately denounced as “a war crime” by the government in Kiev.


    Russia has allot of airtime for dangerous idiots. I hope for my other home in Montana knows
    that during the Cold War days it was the missile commanders on both sides cool
    heads that prevented nuclear war- politicians should be careful unless they want
    to push the button themselves.

    A Russian television anchor has raised global eyebrows by noting in a commentary that Russia is "the only country in the world capable of turning the USA into radioactive dust."
    Speaking on the Rossiya 1 news channel, Dmitry Kiselyov — who has supporters in the Kremlin — delivered a diatribe against critics of the Ukraine incursion with a picture of a mushroom cloud behind him.

    At one point, Kiselyov attributed President Obama's increasingly gray hair to worries about Russia's nuclear arsenal.
    Russian President Vladimir Putin recently appointed Kiselyov to lead an official news agency.


    He told VOA that he didn't know much about Reagan's domestic policies, but "his foreign policy was in [his] view absolutely adequate to the situation. With a monster such as the USSR was, it was possible to speak only from a position of force." Unfortunately, he added, "Russia continues a policy of the Soviet model," but "the reaction of certain civilized countries of the West to what is happening with us in Russia does not entirely correspond to the real situation. This reaction is too soft and uncertain. Just as the Soviet Union was an 'evil empire,' so [today] Russian represents a threat to democracy and civilization in the entire world."


    Funny you know how Russia got diplomatic recognition back in the early days and how much western money Russia got as a result...Russia gets booted from G8 now G7.

    Awareness of the growing crisis arose initially within the KGB which with its extensive network of informants in every region and institution had its finger on the pulse of the nation. Yuri Andropov, director of the KGB, created a secret department during the 1970s within the KGB devoted to economic analysis, and when he succeeded Brezhnev in 1982 sounded the alarm forcefully to the Soviet leadership. Andropov's remedy of increased discipline, however, proved ineffective. It was only when Andropov's protege Gorbachev assumed power that a determined, but ultimately unsuccessful, assault on the economic crisis was undertaken.

    For those Soviet watchers out there will know Andropov's true sucessor was Putin....he learned from him.
    Gives you a idea of that very Cold part of the Cold War in the early 80's.

    At the time I took this picture, in eastern Afghanistan in 1982, Mr. Putin was a young KGB officer working for his boss and idol Yuri Andropov, who later that year became the Soviet head of state. Andropov, it should be noted, masterminded the suppression of the Hungarian revolution in 1956, ordered the crushing of the Prague Spring in 1968, and was the main proponent within the Politburo of the ill-fated Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979.

    Are things more dangerous or less dangerous. I think the former.

    One of my spies has told me his former wife called him a 'vampire' for a personality. Sums it up for me. a energy vampire.

    Ask a former KGB spook how they run their business and its 'tentacles' in the West.

    Pietsch said Putina thought highly of truthfulness, but was reprimanded by her husband: "Who cares about your truths." Then Vladimir Putin told Pietsch that she would deserve a monument if she could bear to spend three weeks with Lyudmila.

    Its hard to talk rationally to a foreign leader who is insane and still thinks the Berlin Wall has not fallen down yet is delusional.

    General Vladimir Soshkin is actually Vladamir Putin incarnate. NATO vs Russia in 1991. The tactics are being revisitied again.
    Ignore the markets they know nothing of the machinations now behind the Kremlin. It could be a rouse for
    all out war in Eastern Europe if Russia invades the Ukraine- it will have more than enough troops and tanks to
    keep going if sanctions hurt his interests too much- he is a vampire after all. It used the Olympics last time to attack
    Georgia so it has some special services that should be monitored. It may already be too late. It is a shame this documentary
    is in German but it provides a insight on Warsaw Pacts plan for open war in Europe in the 1991 if the coup failed...
    Gorbachev survived but in 2014 they are back in power and want revenge. SBS did a English translation and it
    would be appropriate if it re-appeared on TV in 2014 many years after it was made.


    The world is conflicted. Markets have said ho-hum—stock markets have rallied since Putin’s address—while political and military leaders have been in a panic. But those who deal in global security—NATO in particular—are worried that the underpinnings of the six-decade “long peace” since World War II are at risk.


    The first massive concrete bulwarks appeared at the Novoazovsk border crossing on March 16, the same day that voters in the Crimea region overwhelmingly voted in favour of independence from Ukraine.

    Ironically, some of the huge military blocks that now stand on this last stretch of Ukrainian territory before reaching Russia are decorated with paintings honouring Soviet WWII tank divisions.

    “We are ready for any event,” Captain Igor Lisagoub, the ranking officer among the Ukrainian border guards stationed at Novoazovsk, told FRANCE 24.

    However, with no heavy artillery or reinforcements in sight, it is difficult to image how Lisagoub and the soldiers at his command could defend their positions from an eventual Russian aggression.

    “We have noticed no threatening military movements on the other side of the border, and the situation remains calm for the moment,” Captain Lisagoub said, almost as if trying to reassure himself.

    “Nevertheless, during the past two weeks we have stepped up controls in order to prevent Russian provocateurs from participating in anti -government protests in the region,” he adds.

    concrete reinforcements could be a symbol of Russian pre-paredness and fortifications are always vulnerable as Patton says...

    I think this journalists has little knowledge of how a military operates. The Russian military structure has weaknesses
    in its archaic command structure and ways its gets intelligence. If you attack these the body will loose cohesion
    and strength by numbers makes you more weak...NATO's. know all. Having a big army is nothing to a well
    trained army or guerrillas force who can inflict wounds to make a war a problematic thing. Taking out
    Spetznaz operatives(yes those armed plain clothes operatives) in Ukraine would be next. If they cannot see then
    their commands will be more cautious than confident and Russia would be less likerly to commit a land army in
    a area hostile to Putins intentions. Ukraine would need allot of troops to occupy more than
    Iraq due to its size so Russia is fighting a loosing war here.

    I salute the Ukrainian Air base commander at Belbek who in the end was a victim of fsb tactics.
    They could never face you in the air (I remember a top Ukrainian pilot who defected we hav'nt
    forgotten you) they will probably steal your beloved Mig29s and trash your base like some
    unducated thugs. Sow your seed and sow what you reap FSB. Cannot even wear a military
    uniform when taking avantage of a situation and using civillians as shields how pathetic.
    Im told anti-tank defenses are popping up everywhere. You even trusted the Russians
    to give back your nuclear firepower of over 1,100 nuclear weapons only for them to
    be pointed at you at the whim of a childish leader in the Kremlin at the moment.
    If you still had your nuclear weapons Russia would have never invaded the Crimea.
    Teaches you not to trust people who don't have you best interests at heart.

    Different name- same tactics
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 23-03-2014 at 12:16 PM.

  11. #36
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Tens of thousands of Russian soldiers are massed along the Ukrainian border, U.S. officials report, with large contingents gathered near the Donetsk region in eastern Ukraine. Russian officials say the troops are conducting routine exercises. On Saturday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow has no intention of using them against Ukraine.

    But ever since Russian President Vladimir Putin annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula after a hastily arranged referendum March 16, few here know what to believe. This is a Russian-speaking region that has long been well disposed toward its neighbor. Some small but vocal groups, fearing that they will get short shrift from Kiev, have demonstrated against the Ukrainian government. There have been demands for a referendum on joining Russia. But no one is asking for war.

    “I worry about it all the time,” said Anatoly Akimochkin, first vice chairman of the Independent Trade Union of Miners of Ukraine. “Any kind of intervention will mean war, and the border is not far away. Some are ready to take up arms and defend their state. And there are some who would welcome Russian troops.”

    Russian television channels are widely watched here, he said, and they have assaulted Ukrainians with propaganda, describing Kiev as being in the hands of fascists on their way to kill eastern Ukrainians. People are being brainwashed, he said, which accounted for the pro-Russian demonstrations, although lately those have been diminishing.

    Perhaps 500 people gathered Saturday around the statue of Vladimir Lenin in the city of Donetsk, waving a few Russian flags in the bitter-cold wind, shouting for protection of the Russian language and denouncing Kiev as an illegitimate government. A small contingent of policemen stood by, trying to keep warm. Few people were on the streets.

    “I am really afraid Russia will invade us,” said Aleksey Ryabchyn, a 30-year-old husband and father and a second lieutenant in the army reserve, as he chatted in a cafe. “Putin doesn’t follow logic — no one expected him to annex Crimea. I don’t think the U.S. will fight for us. We are on our own.”

    Ryabchyn, the son of a Russian mother and a Ukrainian father, came of age after the fall of the Soviet Union and has always regarded Russia and Ukraine as separate but close, like the United States and Canada.

    Now some of his friends are keeping their gas tanks filled, fearing they’ll have to drive their families to safety in western Ukraine at any moment. Others talk about partisan warfare.

    “These are the most critical days of our independence,” Yevhen Marchuk, a former Ukrainian defense minister, said in Kiev. The Russian soldiers will have to invade soon, he said, or return to their barracks.

    “It’s impossible for an army to stay there for long,” he said. “There are all the signs that a military attack could happen. It doesn’t mean it’s inevitable.”

    Kateryna Zhemchuzhnykova, a 25-year-old journalist, tries to keep her mind on her work to avoid thinking about what could happen. She lives with her parents, who are filling the larder with food to see them through a possible invasion.

    The Donetsk governor, billionaire businessman Serhiy Taruta, has used his own money to have a trench dug, more than 12 feet wide and eight feet deep, along the coal-mining region’s 90-mile border with Russia in an effort to ward off invasion.

    Taruta was appointed to the office by the new government in Kiev, which took over after President Viktor Yanukovych fled the country Feb. 22 following months of protests in favor of good government and closer ties with Europe rather than Russia.

    He was not especially cheered by the news that Putin had called President Obama on Friday to suggest that a diplomatic solution to the Ukrainian crisis was possible. There have been a lot of phone calls, Taruta said, that have resulted in nothing.

    “It’s important to understand that America needs not only to hold negotiations but to provide guarantees to Ukraine of territorial integrity,” he said. “We have the impression the West is more interested in the economic situation than in democracy. The Ukrainian people feel betrayed.”

    He was referring to the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which the United States persuaded Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons in return for a guarantee of protection from Britain, the United States and, ironically, Russia. In business, Taruta said, when you sign an agreement, you follow through.

    “Everyone’s afraid,” said Oleksiy Matsuka, who writes for an independent online newspaper, “especially businessmen, those who have something to lose. If Russia took over, there would be a partisan war. Everyone would suffer.”

    Pro-Russians are not calling for an invasion. Kirill Cherkashin, a sociologist, said the differences between Ukraine’s east and west are so deep that the east would be better off going its own way and joining Russia. There’s a danger, he said, that if the west subjugates the east, a partisan war could erupt, but that should be avoided.

    “The best way out is a peaceful option,” Cherkashin said, “like in Czechoslovakia.”

    The F-22s and B-2s should be sent. A Ukrainian invasion will not be tolerated. If Putin decides to destablise Eastern Europe
    further you could not rule out World War Three either. Last time the Ukraine was invaded was during WWII so Russia should
    think long and hard on writing new pages of history without realising the consequences. I always thought World War Three
    would start from a old agreement broken leading to unforseen consequences globally till a single event made it a point
    of no return. What happens after that not even Einstein knows. The collapse & breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991
    is now part of global history and will never return and anybody who wants it return is either deluded or wishes for
    Armageddon. The Russian people must realise that Vladimir Putin has put Russia on a collision course with the West just like
    when Andropov was in charge back in 1983. Putin was a understudy of Andropov so fears are high for a major war.

    The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) formally ceased to exist on 26 December 1991



    The dog of war. Interesting wallpaper.

    “They have gone beyond their base and occupied Crimea – it is conquered territory. Russia violated the Budapest Memorandum. Ukraine has every reason to go to international arbitration. I call on the Russian authorities to stop. Between our peoples should not be war. Does Russia not understand that this is the beginning of World War 3?”

    Leonid Kravchuk- former Ukrainian president.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 02-04-2014 at 01:15 PM.

  12. #37
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    THE US and Russia failed to reach a breakthrough deal on Ukraine yesterday as US Secretary of State John Kerry called on Moscow to pull back its forces, saying they were creating a “climate of fear.”

    But the two sides did agree to keep talking after what were described as “frank” and “constructive” negotiations lasting about four hours late into the night at the lavish residence of the Russian ambassador to Paris.

    Both sides stressed they believe in finding a diplomatic solution and put forward plans on how to end the crisis, triggered in February when the pro-Moscow government in Kiev fell and the Kremlin sent thousands of troops into Crimea before annexing the southern peninsula.

    Washington and its allies have imposed stinging sanctions on Moscow for its flagrant land grab and for massing thousands of troops on the borders of eastern Ukraine. US officials believe the measures are biting hard and causing Russian President Vladimir Putin to seek a way out.

    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said the hastily *arranged talks with Mr Kerry in Paris had been “constructive” and would continue, but he reiterated Russia’s belief that Ukraine should become a federal nation.

    Mr Kerry said Washington had agreed to study Moscow’s ideas unveiled in the “frank” talks, but stressed the US administration believed Russia’s *“actions to be illegal and illegitimate”. He urged Russia to pull back its forces from the borders of Ukraine, and said any talks on the country’s future must include Kiev’s leaders.

    “We will not accept a path forward where the legitimate government of Ukraine is not at the table. This principle is clear. No decisions about Ukraine without Ukraine,” Mr Kerry said later.

    Any progress “must include a pullback of the very large Russian force … massing along Ukraine’s borders”, Mr Kerry said. “The Russian troop build-up is creating a climate of fear and intimidation in Ukraine.”

    Mr Kerry said even if the troops remained on Russian soil and did not enter Ukraine, they created a negative atmosphere.

    “The question is not of right or legality,” he said. “The question is … whether it’s smart to have troops massed on the border.”

    US officials said Mr Kerry proposed a number of ideas on troop withdrawals from the border and Mr Lavrov, while making no promises, told him he would present the proposals to the Kremlin.

    Mr Lavrov did not mention troops in his press conference, and both sides said differences *remained.

    Washington would work with the new interim leaders in Kiev to ensure the rights of minorities and language rights, as well as the disarmament of militias and free and fair presidential elections next month, Mr Kerry said, in a tacit acknowledgment of some of Moscow’s concerns.

    Moscow’s plan would allow parts of Ukraine, a former Soviet republic, to declare Russian as a second official language and secure more independence from Kiev — a move analysts view as a bid to weaken the authority of what is likely to be a permanent new pro-Western leadership.

    Mr Lavrov said Ukraine could not function as a “unified state” and should be a loose federation of regions each allowed to choose their economic, *financial, social, linguistic and *religious models.

    “We are convinced that federalism is a very important element of the constitutional reforms,” Mr Lavrov said. “We have to find a consensus, a compromise between the regions of Ukraine.”

    The US has been coy about its position on a federation. Washington has encouraged political and constitutional reform efforts that the government in Kiev is now working on, but US officials insist any changes to Ukraine’s governing structure must be *acceptable to the Ukrainians.

    Mr Kerry said the federation idea had not been discussed in any serious way during his meeting with Mr Lavrov “because it would have been inappropriate to do so without Ukrainian input”. Mr Lavrov denied that Moscow wanted to “split Ukraine”.

    “To the contrary, federation … answers the interests of all *regions of Ukraine,” he said.

    However, Mr Kerry did not win a Russian commitment to halt its military build-up near its former Soviet neighbour and to order its Crimean forces back to their bases.

    The only time when your troops are on somebodies border should answer why Russia posture now is so aggressive not just in the Ukraine- on multiple fronts.
    Nobody has mentioned old Transnistria region which some Eastern Europeans to be another proxy Russian state.
    Little Russian enclaves popping up all over the place. Soon New York Russians will demmand independance- lol

    Most people are happy to topple Hiter and Lenin statues. Some just hark for a past many would rather forget.

    US Intelligence cannot seem to get into Putin's brain and work out his next move. Maybe instead of looking to him
    maybe some of his old KGB collegues and mentors would provide his inspiration & motivation in his reformation
    of the Soviet Union- in the 21st century- by any means necessary- overt and covert. One name comes to
    mind and thats Andropov style of thinking...

    Either Im in a timewarp from 1982 or Putin still thinks it 1982. If thats the case we should adopt similar polices
    of containment of the Soviet Union and anyone who supports them.

    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 05-04-2014 at 12:18 PM.

  13. #38
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    War by economic strangulation...?

    Lack of payment may be a pretext for invasion- in Putins mind.
    I called Georgia before and he will look for every excuse for
    a border incursion...considering Putin is a lawyer and debts

    "This issue requires a very careful study and consideration," he said. "In particular, I think that European companies that are willing to reverse supply gas to Ukraine should very carefully, very carefully, look at the legality of such operations."

    Currently around 40 percent of Russia's exports to Europe flow through Ukraine, with the rest sent to Germany via the Nord Stream pipeline under the Baltic Sea and via the Yamal Europe pipe through Belarus and Poland.

    Yatseniuk said the reverse gas could save Ukraine, which is on the brink of default, between $120 and $150 per 1,000 cubic metres. Ukraine consumed 50 billion cubic metres in 2013.

    Prodan said Ukraine wanted to buy gas from neighbouring Slovakia, but Slovakia's gas company had declined to allow Ukrainians to examine its current transit facilities.

    Slovakia's Eustream, which operates the gas network, denied it had turned away Ukrainian requests to inspect its facilities.

    Slovakia is the EU gateway for Ukrainian supplies, with the potential to reverse flow more than 20 bcm into Ukraine, which could meet over a third of the country's gas demand, but not in a hurry. Ukrainian officials said they see possible imports from Slovakia at 10 bcm annually.

    Analysts said it could take another six months for gas to actually start flowing from Slovakia to Ukraine, and that the link was unlikely to flow at maximum reverse capacity.


    Take them to the international court.

    A real 'false flag'. Somebody mentioned Iraq.

    Yet the comparison between Putin’s seizure of Crimea and Bush’s liberation of Iraq ultimately falls apart based on the simplest of realities. America invaded Iraq, disposed of a bloodthirsty dictator, did our best to establish a provisional and democratic government, and withdrew. Nor did we seek anything in the way of reparations: China has become the largest recipient of Iraqi oil, with India coming in second.

    Putin, however, is not at all interested in global security or bringing an internally recognized criminal to justice. Since 2008, Putin has engaged in invasions of two countries — Georgia and Ukraine — and many of Russia’s neighbours are now fearing the same fate awaits them. That fear is driven by the reality that Putin has characterized the breakup of the Soviet Union as ”the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century,” and is eyeing other conquests in his determination to build a Eurasian Union of former Soviet states. Fear of Russian expansionism is further exacerbated by Obama’s killing of the missile defense systems that were to be installed in Poland and the Czech Republic in 2009, which were aborted in exchange for a “reset” in bilateral relations between the U.S. and Russia.

    Us historians are very worried of late.

    For the Eastern European conspiracy theorists...its all fate accompli.

    A similar bomb was found and defused in the Russian city of Ryazan on 22 September 1999. Two days later Federal Security Service (FSS) Director Nikolai Patrushev announced that the Ryazan incident had been a training exercise.[2] This led some, such as Alexander Litvinenko and Anna Politkovskaya, to speculate that the apartment bombings had been carried out by the Russian secret service FSB (formerly KGB).

    Together with the Invasion of Dagestan launched from Chechnya in August 1999 by Islamist militia led by Shamil Basayev and Ibn al-Khattab, the bombings caused the Russian Federation to launch the Second Chechen War.


    Anyone who's seen the arms-trafficking film Lord of War will remember Yuriy Orlov, the Ukrainian-American arms dealer played by Nicolas Cage. He's loosely-based on Viktor Bout, the world's most notorious gunrunner, who used a team of jobless ex-Soviet pilots to smuggle weapons to half the wars in Africa in the 1990s. In the film, Cage also conveniently has an uncle in the Ukrainian army, who flogs him a vast arsenal of surplus hardware at a knockdown price.
    As ever, Hollywood took slight liberties with the facts. Bout, who's now serving 25 years in a US jail, was actually Russian, not Ukrainian. His connections to Ukraine were limited to a two-year stint in an infantry unit there.

    Arms dealing is a major global issue that never seems to go away.

    Some people trust peoples good intentions others know what Putin's Machiavellian mind is capable of doing very easily.

    Since people in Ukraine’s Black Sea peninsula of Crimea voted to join Russia in a referendum on Sunday, fears are growing that Russian President Vladimir Putin will boost efforts to destabilize other regions in the largely pro-Moscow east of the country.

    On Monday — in spite of protests from Kyiv that Crimea is not for the taking — Putin signed a decree recognizing the region as a sovereign state. Russian parliament is expected to vote this week on Crimea's application to join the Russian Federation.

    With Moscow dismissing moves by Western countries to enact sanctions against Russia, GlobalPost’s Europe editor Gregory Feifer talks about what may come next.

    GlobalPost: What exactly is happening in eastern Ukraine?

    Gregory Feifer: Reports say that part of the country is crawling with Russian special forces seeking to whip up separatist sentiment. We’ve already seen pro-Russia protesters storm government buildings and hoist the Russian flag as well as beat rival pro-Ukraine demonstrators, killing at least one and injuring many more.

    I tend to agree those Russian special forces are using a old 'red brigade' tactic of disguising themselves as civillians
    when they are actually Agent provocateur- stirring up a fight and whipping up nationalist sentiments in Russian
    residents in the Ukraine. Not all Russians would like living under Putin.

    Putin must have read that book that was banned for a few hundred years.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 07-04-2014 at 10:10 AM.

  14. #39
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Whats that on a train. In dunno just moving them around I suppose...


    Pro-Russian separatists reinforced barricades around the state security building in the eastern Ukrainian city of Luhansk on Wednesday and called on President Vladimir Putin for help after the government warned it could use force to restore order.

    But protesters were also engaged in talks to ease the standoff, which Kyiv has said could provide a pretext for a Russian invasion, and lawmakers from eastern Ukraine proposed an amnesty for protesters to defuse tension.

    The former KGB headquarters is one of three government buildings seized this week in eastern Ukraine by protesters demanding regional referendums on independence from Kyiv, like the one in Crimea that led to its annexation by Russia. Ukraine Pro-Russian activists stand near an entrance of the Ukrainian regional office of the Security Service in Luhansk. (Igor Golovniov/The Associated Press) Assistant U.S. Secretary of State Victoria Nuland said on Wednesday that Washington has no doubt that Russians were behind the takeovers of government buildings in eastern Ukraine this week.

    "I don't think that we have any doubt the preponderance of direct Russian involvement," Nuland, the top U.S. diplomat for Europe, said at a congressional hearing on the Ukraine crisis. Tensions have risen in the mainly Russian-speaking east since the overthrow of Ukraine's Moscow-backed president and the installation of a new pro-European government.Sandbags and wooden crates were piled near the entrance of the building to defend it against the police. Men with rifles could be seen through broken windows above.

    "The authorities are trying to discredit us, to discredit and by any means make us turn our rifles against each other," said an unidentified protester said speaking into a microphone from the barricade.

    "They are trying to urge our young men, those who served in the army and those who did not serve in the army, they are trying to make them take weapons and go to the border with Russia. We should not allow them to do that,"
    Local police spokeswoman Tatyana Pogukai said protesters had found an arsenal of weapons within the building. Protesters say they have 200-300 Kalashnov automatic rifles. She denied previous reports that hostages had been taken.

    She said negotiations had been carried out overnight but the two sides had not come to an agreement.
    Ukraine's state security service said that 50 people had left the building in Luhansk overnight. Protesters confirmed that some had left.
    Activists, many in balaclavas and masks, continued to build makeshift barricades and prepared petrol bombs.


    There is absolutely no evidence, aside from rhetoric, to suggest that Russia in general and Putin in particular have been converted to Christianity. Instead, what we are witnessing is a massive Russian "active measures" campaign that has ensnared many American conservatives, convincing them that Putin is somehow a legitimate alternative to President Obama's decadent worldview. It is troubling to see some of these conservatives endorse Russia's invasion and occupation of Ukraine.

    The term "active measures" refers to influence operations that use agents of influence, disinformation, and propaganda.

    The main flaw in Buchanan's argument is the lack of any real evidence that Russia has come to grips with – and disavowed – its Soviet past. To the contrary, Putin laments the passing of the USSR and has put the former KGB, now the FSB, in charge of the power centers in Russia. He celebrates Russian spying on America.

    Lt. Gen. Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest-ranking Soviet bloc defector, says that Russia is "the first intelligence dictatorship in history." Two brave Russian investigative journalists, Andrei Soldatov and Irina Borogan, have captured the nature of the problem in their book The New Nobility: The Restoration of Russia's Security State and the Enduring Legacy of the KGB.

    Wicked things hiding in good intentions is all part of the game.

    Retired KGB Maj. Gen. Oleg Kalugin described active measures as "the heart and soul of Soviet intelligence": "Not intelligence collection, but subversion: active measures to weaken the West, to drive wedges in the Western community alliances of all sorts, particularly NATO, to sow discord among allies, to weaken the United States in the eyes of the people of Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, and thus to prepare ground in case the war really occurs."[2]

    Active measures was a system of special courses taught in the Andropov Institute of KGB situated at SVR headquarters in Yasenevo, near Moscow. The head of the "active measures department" was Yuri Modin, former controller of the Cambridge Five spy ring.

    Want to blame the chaos on somebody- its Speztnaz, GRU and SVR's work...

    The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) confirmed March 16 the arrest of a group of Russians in the Zaporizhzhia (Zaporozhye) region of Ukraine. The men were armed with firearms, explosives and unspecified 'special technical means'. This follows the March 14 arrest ... of several Russians dressed black uniforms with no insignia, armed with AKS-74 assault rifles and in possession of numerous ID cards under various names. One of which was an ID card of Military Intelligence Directorate of the Russian armed forces; commonly known as 'Spetsnaz'. ... Spetsnaz commandos operating in eastern Ukraine would have the missions encompassing general ground reconnaissance of Ukrainian army units ... missions they may perform preparatory to a Russian invasion would be planting explosives at key communications choke points to hinder movement of Ukrainian forces; seizing control of roads, rail heads, bridges and ports for use by arriving Russian combat troops; and possibly capturing or assassinating Ukrainian generals or politicians in key positions ... Spetsnaz also infiltrate themselves into local populations ... Once in place they begin 'stirring the pot' of ethnic and political strife with the goal of creating violent clashes usually involving firearms and destabilizing local authority

    30 Russian nuclear bombers- all amassed in one location- could only mean....

    Early on March 5, U.S. satellites captured an image showing many bomber aircraft had arrived at the base. Later on March 5, a U.S. stealth surveillance drone, flown over the Russian base, showed more than thirty (30) such nuclear bomber aircraft had arrived at the airfield. Numerous transfers were observed by U.S. satellites, between the nuclear storage facility and the newly arrived aircraft. Those aircraft remain on the runway at the local airport at this hour, several with what appear to be Auxiliary Power Units (APU's) attached, indicating the aircraft are on 'stand-by" for immediate deployment.

    When challenged as to how a drone could fly over a Russian military base without being detected and shot down, TRN was told "not all of our drones are detectable by radar and besides, the people at that base are often drunk."

    Others may not be ready for the Third World War- some already are. 2015-2021- billions dead. Its human destiny like Sagan said to be destroyed
    by ones own hand. The conflicts in the world are getting more protracted and unpredictable till it is inevitable. We are buying time no more-
    time is running out instead. 4 minutes to midnight and counting down. The decades of peace and prosperity of the post WWII boom
    have all but ended and clouds of another kind are forming...


    “Well, it has all the telltale signs of what we saw in Crimea,” Samantha Power, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, said Sunday on ABC’s “This Week With George Stephanopoulos.” “It’s professional, it’s coordinated, there’s nothing grass-roots-seeming about it.”

    If the attacks continued, she warned, the United States would intensify its sanctions against Russia. As for the Kiev government, it lost Crimea without firing a shot and has vowed not to repeat the mistake in eastern Ukraine.

    Well disciplined and highly organised attacks on police barracks- I wonder who it is...

    Did I hear somebody say Fulda-Gap?


    The idea is to break up the massive stocks of vehicles, weapons, and ammunition the Army has traditionally warehoused across the Middle East, Europe and aboard ships into smaller, theater-specific “activity sets” that troops can simply fall in on. This way, units can fly in with only their personal gear and make use of the heavy equipment already in place, then leave the equipment behind once the event is over.

    “When we let someone use it, they pay for it,” an Army official said. “Instead of it being the Army, we let people use it and they pay for the use. The cost comes from the combatant commander.” Cost would involve restoring the gear to its original condition.

    The new strategy is “fiscally sound, it keeps us from buying readiness that we don’t need because you’re not having to move stuff around, and you’ll have the capability and capacities that you’ll need for those exercises that you want to do more regularly,” the officer added.

    two tank columns cross a road- tank driver joke.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 14-04-2014 at 05:41 PM.

  15. #40
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...


    Ukraine’s armed forces, demoralized and underequipped, are so short of funds that when the government ordered them on high alert last month as Russian forces seized Crimea, a Ukrainian billionaire had to buy the military fuel. The businessman, Ihor Kolomoysky, now the governor of the Dnipropetrovsk region next to Donetsk, said he put up around $5 million of his own money to pay for gasoline and batteries so that Ukrainian military vehicles could leave their garages and helicopters could get off the ground.

    Ukraine’s intelligence agency, the State Security Service, known as SBU, is so riddled with Russian informers that when John O. Brennan, the C.I.A. director, visited Kiev over the weekend on a supposedly secret trip, Russian state news media swiftly revealed his visit and declared it evidence that Washington was calling the shots in Ukraine and pushing for a crackdown in the east.

    Even Alfa, an elite Ukrainian special forces unit that takes pride in taking on perilous missions, has appeared feckless in its response to the unrest in the east.

    It lost an officer on Sunday to gunfire, apparently from the pro-Russian side in Slovyansk. The force has made no headway since in entering the city, never mind freeing government buildings there from unidentified gunmen.

    As with other arms of Ukraine’s security and intelligence services, some members have divided loyalties and seem disinclined to engage in a fight against pro-Moscow militants that would put older women and other residents who support the gunmen in the line of fire.

    Alfa, under investigation for its role in cracking down on protesters in the capital during the uprising against the ousted president, Viktor F. Yanukovych, did not deploy, as expected, to remove pro-Russian militants from Slovyansk on Monday.

    “We have been left defenseless,” shouted a uniformed Cossack from a stage in Kiev’s Independence Square, the focal point of three months of protests against Mr. Yanukovych and now a magnet for those unhappy with what has happened since he fled to Russia in February. “I ask the government to give us arms — what we need is this,” he said, waving a Kalashnikov rifle to cheers from the crowd.

    Im sure a few LRRP's know the Russian language well. For those familiar with what happened in Georgia in 2008.

    My advice to the Ukrainian Army. With all the Darth Vader symbology for Putin I think he is more like Thulsa Doom- Putin has a cult dedicated to- him.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 15-04-2014 at 01:59 PM.

  16. #41
    Experienced Member fordfan96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    South Australia
    2013 Ford Focus

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Does this all mean that the terror attacks in Russia prior to Winter Olympics were people from Ukraine?

  17. #42
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by fordfan96 View Post
    Does this all mean that the terror attacks in Russia prior to Winter Olympics were people from Ukraine?

    Russia is using a old trick of distraction (like in Georgia in 2008 )of attacking another country which it sees as a treat to it considering it is occupying territory
    and has NATO on alert would make you think.

    The bombers during the Olympics were from either Dagestan, Ingshetia or Chechnya intent on fighting their own war with Russia.

    Also FYI The Boston Bomber Russian intelligence services knew about but somehow never passed on to the Americans when he emigrated....

    Russia uses terrorism to gain territory like its doing in the East of the Ukraine at present.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 15-04-2014 at 08:10 PM.

  18. #43
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Waging a silent bliztkrieg may be getting some
    Russian soldiers (dressed in civvies) a bit too excited. 1979 looks
    set to repeat itself now.

    Psychological warfare involves many tactics involved in breaking your opponent- by the Russians Govt would be any means necessary.
    Burning down the police station would be a symbol by the insurgents that tactics are more aimed in getting proported foreign intervention
    not used previously as a justification for such acts. Hitlers Anschluss in now Putins 2014.

    THE United States has warned it is preparing new sanctions against Russia if critical Ukraine talks do not produce concessions from Moscow.
    US officials have privately signalled they have little hope of progress from talks between the United States, Russia, Ukraine and the EU.
    They’ve also revealed that the toughest available sanctions — targeting key sectors of the Russian economy — would only come into force in the event of a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.
    Meanwhile, NATO is to deploy more air, sea and land forces in eastern Europe, as pro-Russian militants are accused of taking two Ukrainian soldiers “hostage”.


    History always repeats- sorry. Here Germany annexes Austria prior to WWII. Notice how the 'fanfare' around the Russian 'partisans' is so similar.

    The similarities are stunning and now too late to ignore.

    The only thing Reagan used to quieten down Russian tank armies- was our own tank army. I agree.

    Be careful of Western newspapers pushing a 'Soviet narrative' and those who enable them to do this- be careful for.
    Like John Pilger these two faced beasts pretend to be humanitarian while in reality they enable the terror in
    Russia and N.Korea continue. Its been known by intelligence services for years but the best way to
    undermine dissidents in another country threaterning your rule is to brainwash locals make them
    travel to your country- show them the 'good life' and make them write wonderful stories about
    how people live behind the Iron Curtain- rose coloured and all. The Russian secret service
    excelled in getting academics, engineers, politicans, industrialists and others to play their
    game even if they did not know what part they were playing in it...

    The days of the soft-left influencing the West are coming undone...and rightly so.
    Those who promise people of a 'better life' under a new system are always suckers for brainwashing otherwise...
    Afterall there is no such thing as Utopia- its latin meaning- no place. Meaning in the human conditions anybody
    who promises you utopia is deluded...John Pilger well.

    The KGB is not just James Bond stuff its about subversion as well...brainwashing 101.

    So the problem here is not that Russia is getting boxed in by an aggressive NATO policy on its doorstep; no, according to Walker, it is that Putin and a coterie of former KGB thugs want an expansionist Russia to take over Europe, using Ukraine as the launchpad.


    Profiting from somebodies misfortune? So be it. Its a cruel world out there...it may also mean other 'leaders' may also be on the
    'hit list' for assasination- should they 'get in the way'- welcome to the real Russia...a warning to Western leaders what *****footing
    around with a madman means...hellbent on resurrecting the USSR. The posture of NATO of late has been weak and im sure
    Russia is taking full advantage of this. Considering a Russian assassin could kill Litvenyenkyo under the noses of Mi6
    must mean they not afraid of anyone and even hiding in the US may no longer be safe. Australia like the UK is full of Russian agents...
    They may even conduct more wide-ranging operations due to this perceived impunity- this is where it can get very dangerous....
    The old men of intelligence say if the Ukraine problem is not solved the ramifications for the free world well...

    The plane’s black boxes, laptops, sensitive documents, mobile phones, address books, telephone numbers, correspondence, and the top-secret military, NATO and diplomatic codes on board were salvaged from crash site immediately by the Kremlin’s operatives in what was a “coup for Russia’s intelligence service” according to retired CIA analyst Gene Poteat. What Nowaczyk calls “years worth of work for security services” was completed in a single day by Russia’s OMON Special Purpose Police, which were immediately deployed to the site.

    If this is to be taken for true- the silent attack is already in its final stages. Will the 4th Protocol be broken in the Ukraine?

    Australian security sources have privately acknowledged that the security breach compromised intelligence information and capabilities across Western intelligence agencies, especially in the US and Canada but also including Australia's top secret Defence Signals Directorate and the Defence Intelligence Organisation.

    Russian security services psy-ops on the internet.

    Should we take this new, more unpredictable phase of propaganda seriously? Undoubtedly we should. As Putin’s system faces pressure, his reliance on dangerous propaganda and threats will grow. Propaganda is an attempt to use fantasy to alter reality, as this pro-Kremlin viral video of a Ukrainian invasion demonstrates. Such threats are very destabilising. Videos of endless tank trains on YouTube constitute a passive-aggressive threat of war, and to threaten war is contrary to the UN Charter. These images are meant to be seen, though they are designed to look like secrets. Also, in the present crisis, social propaganda seems to announce the future – or, rather, it announces the intentions of the Kremlin in advance.

    If a EC-135 cannot loiter off the Kamchatka Penninsula without being shot down I think America should reply in kind...
    I was going to do some fly fishing there as I heard the trout are huge- too bad no tourist dollars their way...

    Until the early 1990s, foreigners, and even most Russians, were prohibited from visiting Kamchatka. Even today, a decade after the cold war's end, Russia continues to maintain a heavy military presence on the Peninsula, and many areas of Kamchatka remain off-limits.

    Kamchatka is the home base of the Pacific submarine fleet.


    A weakened army will hurt both the navy and air force. No boots on ground means no presence- im afraid to say.
    It may even embolden enemies that a small army could be outfought by a larger even weaker trained one. At a
    time when China and Russia are expanding their militaries and with flashpoints all over the globe- our logic does not seem sound.
    Our quest for peace may lead to a very large war being inevitable due to force drop-down...just like Chamberlain did.
    Weakness invites aggression after all- you only have peace through superior firepower and this could also explain
    why our economy is tanking as well and why China and Russia are strangely doing so well...

    Will the U.S. Army be reduced in size in the coming years? Budget reductions and a changing strategic environment demand a smaller, reorganized army. However, converting it into a force suited only for homeland defense or humanitarian missions abroad, without the ability to fight sophisticated foes as part of a joint force, would result in an unprepared Army likely to experience high casualties when called on to fight a war.

    Then, during the height of the Sudetenland crisis, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain met with Adolf Hitler in Berchtesgaden and agreed to concede Sudetenland. No Czechoslovakian representative was even invited to these discussions.

    And Hitler, who was aiming to use the crisis as a pretext for war, demanded the immediate military occupation of the territories. This put the Czechoslovak army in an indefensible position. Months after Hitler took the Sudetenland, he conquered the balance of Czechoslovakia.
    Chamberlain’s name and legacy will, for all of history, be equated with appeasing Hitler. Chamberlain refused to stand up to Hitler early and, as a result, Hitler came to disrespect the resolve of the Western European powers.

    ...sound familar with Crimea? History does repeat.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 19-04-2014 at 11:49 AM.

  19. #44
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Does Russia have control over its presence in the Ukraine or pretending these armed men are not part of
    their security establishment follow orders from whom? Makes the Russian military look like pirates
    than a military force of any stature. Reminds me of the movie about the 4th protocol about
    certain military operatives in the KGB going rouge. Im sure with the victory in the
    Ukraine will further destabilise Eastern Europe.

    Pro-Russian separatists in several cities are refusing to leave buildings, defying a key term of the accord.
    Russia, Ukraine, the EU and US had agreed during talks in Geneva that illegal military groups in Ukraine must be dissolved, and that those occupying government premises must be disarmed and leave. The sides also decided there would be an amnesty for all anti-government protesters. But the separatists' spokesman in the city of Donetsk said that the Kiev government was "illegal", and vowed they would not go until it stepped down.

    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 19-04-2014 at 12:45 PM.

  20. #45
    Forum Veteran PD56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    The problem with Ukraine is the population itself as some declare themselves to be Russian & the others Ukrainian so therefore no matter what elections or outcome not everyone is going to be pleased.
    This country is going to have ongoing problems for quite awhile with no satisfactory results.

  21. #46
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by PD56 View Post
    The problem with Ukraine is the population itself as some declare themselves to be Russian & the others Ukrainian so therefore no matter what elections or outcome not everyone is going to be pleased.
    This country is going to have ongoing problems for quite awhile with no satisfactory results.
    This country is also in a tug or war between East and West so I gather the stakes are high.
    Judging by whats happening at present a repeat of the war in Bosnia seems likerly.
    There is more than just Ukrainian, Slavic, Jew, Pole, German, Hungarian, Tatar and Cossack and other ethnicities
    are there as well- the Russians are a vocal minority cheering on for mother Russia as they
    can provide military support just like Serbia threatened Croatia and Bosnia prior
    to Yugoslavia's dissolution...seeing the similarities? I do. Balkanising the area is likerly
    considering Russia does not want to give up as Putin will be seen as weak.
    Putin after all in his KGB mindset sees the fall of Soviet Union as a disaster-
    so the West should have changed policy to reflect that. Too late it seems.

    The worry is if Russia can destablise the Ukraine it will be a springboard for the rest
    of Eastern Europe. Thats why bases in Poland, Lituatiania and other states
    are re-inforcing incase the SVR intends to spread the chaos elsewhere.
    I gather every country in Eastern Europe will be on the watch for
    Russian govt provocations and undermining of their governments by
    economic, political or covert military action to preclude a greater conflict.

    The EU needs to step up to the plate or be destroyed in the process,
    many E.European countries ran to join NATO after 1991 as they
    feared Russian imperialism would return and far more aggressive then
    before. After all even in the darkest days of the Cold War in the 80's
    the Russians did not dare send troops to attack civilian targets
    as they would also be targets themselves. Not anymore it seems.

    The best way to stop Russia is by economic strangulation and by significant
    military presence- niether of which is being done. Russia will continue its
    agression until somebody stops them. Pres. Obama is not up to the job- I hope
    the next US President is better. He has made too many concessions to
    Putin and is unable to say no to him. So if worse comes to worse
    we have a situation in Eastern Europe far worse than the S.China sea.

    As I said before 1979 changed US policy towards Russia of a level of
    permanency 2014 is set to repeat itself.

    I agree with Senator McCain. The Republicans have a clean run now to the next Presidential election.
    The democrats are repeating the same mistake Jimmy Carter made...

    "[Putin] is not enhancing Russia's global reputation. He is destroying it," wrote the senior senator from Arizona, who is also a leading Republican voice on military affairs.


    Putin sees agreed rules and boring meetings as a source of weakness. Hence the Western and wider international response is muted and uncertain. The focus is on stepping up "economic pressure" on Russia in general and key Russians in particular. There is logic to this. Europe needs Russian energy, but Russia needs European money. Russia really has moved on from the Cold War period and joined the international marketplace. It ought to be impressed by the threat of investment bans and other targeted financial measures.

    That approach does not, however, address the key problem. Putin might see the Russian economy hurting and ask Russians another question: “What if we reclaim historic Russian lands but at the cost of eating turnips again for a while?” A noisy majority of Russians might think that that is a sacrifice well worth making. This gives Putin hard policy options unavailable to Western leaders, for whom any equivalent question would be electoral suicide.

    Maybe Europe has some energy reserves to protect itself from Russian economic blackmail...

    Hitler had apologists now working in the US/UK/Australia and so does Putin. Their inability to be identified and exposed for what they are well...
    Hitlers masterplan for WWII and the invasion of Poland was already fait accompli in 1936 -three years before it started.

    There is a correlation between Russian conduct today and the Balkan wars, but it doesn't have to do with Kosova. Rather, it is the adventurism of Miloševic and that of Putin that are analogous, the vocabulary and political habits of both autocrats, and the threatened partition of Ukraine and that of Bosnia-Hercegovina, which was made permanent by the unfortunate Dayton Accords of 1995. The leader of the ‘Republic of Serbs’ inside Bosnia-Hercegovina, Milorad Dodik, supports Putin. At the same time, Serbian ‘parallel structures’ like those that appeared in Crimea have pushed since 1999 to lop off northern Kosova as a ‘Serbian Republic.’

    Unfortunately, the most significant commonalities between Russian aggression against Ukraine and the Balkan wars are found in the venality of Western apologists for Putin, and in the debility of the West in standing up to him.

    Slovenia and Croatia beat Miloševic because they had economic assets and unity that Ukraine lacks. His reverses in those countries did not discourage Miloševic from proceeding to devastate Bosnia-Hercegovina and Kosova. We may presume Putin will repeat such a course. And finally, Ukraine loves Europe the way Bosnia-Hercegovina and Kosova love Europe. But the European Union, the United Nations, and the international agencies responsible for administration of these wounded lands, except for the U.S. forces in the NATO contingents, have grossly disappointed the Bosnians and Kosovars.

    1933 Jan Hitler becomes Chancellor in Germany
    Feb Hitler introduces programme of rearmament
    Oct Hitler leaves Disarmament Conference / announces intention to withdraw Germany from
    League of Nations
    1934 Jan Germany signs Non-aggression pact with poland
    1935 Jan plebiscite in Saar; Germans there vote for return of territory to Germany
    Mar Conscription re-introduced in Germany.
    Stresa agreements between Britain, France and Italy
    Jun anglo-German Naval Treaty
    Oct Italian invasion of abyssinia
    Mar Germany remilitarizes the Rhineland
    Jun Hitler sends military support to Franco’s Nationalists in Spain
    Aug Hitler’s Four Year plan drafted for war
    Nov anti-Comintern pact with Japan; Rome–Berlin axis signed
    May Neville Chamberlain becomes prime Minister in Britain
    Jul Sino-Japanese War begins
    Nov Hossbach Memorandum; war plans meeting
    Mar Anschluss declared after German troops march into austria

    Sep Munich Crisis; Sudetenland Crisis
    Mar Germany occupies rest of Czechoslovakia; Lithuania gives up port of Memel to Germany
    anglo-French guarantee of poland

    Apr- Introduction of conscription in Britain
    May pact of Steel signed between Germany and Italy
    Aug anglo-French military mission to Moscow; Nazi–Soviet pact signed between Germany and
    the USSR; anglo-polish treaty signed
    Sep - Germany invades poland; Britain and France declare war on Germany

    Id prefer a master chess player in charge of Russia not a murderous KGB border guard who used to work at the Berlin Wall..
    World Champion chess player Gary Kasparov like me have always been throrns in Putins eyes.


    Over the past nine years I have dedicated most of my life to opposing Vladimir Putin’s campaign to destroy democracy and civil liberties in Russia. My efforts have included everything from marching in the streets of Moscow to traveling to nearly every Russian province to sounding the alarm about the true nature of Putin’s regime as widely and loudly as possible. Eight years ago, my main arguments to international audiences were about the myths of Putin’s Russia. I explained over and over that no, Putin wasn’t really a democratically elected leader; our elections were a stage-managed charade. That yes, he really was a bad guy who was supporting rogue states abroad while in Russia he was persecuting dissidents, locking down the media under state control and subordinating the Russian economy to the Kremlin and his small circle of cronies. And if Putin is really so popular in Russia, I asked, why is he so afraid of fair elections and a free media? For this, many in the West dismissed me as a fringe troublemaker who might potentially usurp their narrative of how engagement with Putin’s Russia was going to bring about reform and liberalization.

    Although I accurately saw Putin’s main advantage over his Soviet predecessors—open access to international markets and institutions—I never imagined he would abuse and exploit them so easily, or that Western leaders would be so cooperative in allowing him to do so. Putin’s oligarchs bank in London, party in the Alps and buy penthouses in New York and Miami, all while looting Russia under the auspices of a reborn KGB police state. It’s “rule like Stalin, live like Trump.” The West has fulfilled every cynical expectation Putin had about how easy it would be to buy his way around any nasty confrontation over human rights. Even now, with Russian troops occupying Crimea in preparation for annexation, European countries are terrified of losing any Russian oligarch money. They are afraid of using the very thing that gives them so much potential leverage over Putin—exactly as he hoped.

    Of course Putin isn’t Hitler, although his potential for devastation is even greater due to a massive nuclear arsenal under the control of what appears to be a shrinking and desperate inner circle. I would never minimize the horror of the Holocaust, the millions of war dead or the heroism of those who defeated the Nazis. My goal is to scrutinize how the rest of the world did and did not respond while Hitler the popular German statesman was becoming Hitler the monster in the 1930s. Today’s dictators are not so averse to learning from their predecessors. Putin imitating Hitler’s 1936 propaganda methods and Hitler’s 1938 invasion tactics does not mean he will also declare a new Reich and head straight for Poland. But we should draw lessons from that history, too.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz2zKbnrFKt


    Being a border guard on the Berlin Wall was a job for a die-hard commie as no soldier ever wanted that job as many
    wanted to leave themselves...as for Putin leaving the KGB is a lie. The old joke about spies is you only
    see them at weddings or funerals and your old friends will always remind you who you work for....
    His university job was the perfect cover as a informant and recruiter for the new or not so new FSB....
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 19-04-2014 at 10:03 PM.

  22. #47
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    The Spetznaz and GRU are having a field day in the Ukraine will the US stands on its hands.
    The price for standing on its hands will jeapodise the whole of Europe...
    It took a while for some journlalists to work out and put two and two together
    that Georgia and Ukraine are linked to a European masterplan...slice by slice.

    World War 3 is what everyone fears, and the Ukraine crisis may be enough to be the trigger point. Now the new Ukrainian government is claiming that Russian special forces may have been involved in a deadly attack that killed several people. The Donetsk People’s Republic, which declared itself a separate state from Ukraine, is already demanding that Vladimir Putin order his troops into Ukraine.

    In a related report by The Inquisitr, a week ago fears the Ukraine crisis reached a tipping pointing when the US Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, said the “militants in eastern Ukraine were equipped with Russian weapons and the same uniforms as those worn by Russian forces that invaded Crimea.” In response, Ukraine’s military mobilized forces to fight the separatists who had seized around 10 cities and NATO deployed troops to the Baltic. United States ground forces were also sent to Poland in order to reinforce NATO as it stood up against Russia and its army of 40,000 troops stationed outside of Ukraine. Although some journalists have claimed World War 3 has already started, Secretary of State John Kerry is attending meetings in Geneva attempting to stem the tide of the Ukraine crisis.

    Poland must be getting death threats from their old Soviet Masters.
    US Troops are to be deployed.

    STUTTGART, Germany— A small contingent of U.S. soldiers will deploy to Poland and Estonia for a series of upcoming ground exercises aimed at reassuring allies shaken by Russian intervention in neighboring Ukraine, according to a report. The U.S. is planning to send a company sized Army element of roughly 150 troops to conduct drills with allies, spanning roughly two weeks respectively in both Poland and Estonia, The New York Times reported Friday.
    The land force exercises being planned by the Obama administration are part of a broader undertaking by NATO to beef up its presence in eastern Europe. It is unclear what U.S. unit will be taking part in the exercises in Poland and Estonia, but more details are expected to be announced next week, the Times reported.

    150 troops? rather token considering the opposition. I remember in the 80's when a 100,000 troops+
    deployed suddenly changed Warsaw Pact tactics- into retreat rather than advance.

    I wonder when Russian patriotic hackers will take down Wikipedia when the information starts going in the opposite direction.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 21-04-2014 at 09:17 PM.

  23. #48
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    RUSSIA says it will strike back if its “legitimate interests” in Ukraine are attacked, raising the stakes in the Cold War-like duel with the United States over the former Soviet republic's future.

    NATO responded by cautioning against “veiled threats”, saying they violated the spirit of an agreement reached in Geneva last week to try to pull the crisis-hit country back from the brink of civil war.

    Moscow is insisting that Kiev withdraw forces sent to eastern Ukraine on an “anti-terrorist” mission to dislodge pro-Russian rebels, who have occupied government buildings there.

    Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told state-controlled RT television that if Russia or its interests are attacked, “we would certainly respond”.

    “If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in accordance with international law,” he said, referring to Russia's armoured invasion of Georgia in 2008.

    Mr Lavrov also said presidential elections planned for May 25 would be “destructive” for Ukraine in the absence of “common ground” with the country's Russian-speaking south and east.

    As the war of words between Moscow and Kiev's pro-EU authorities intensified, Ukraine's interior ministry said special forces had liberated one small eastern town, Svyatogorsk, from separatists.

    But AFP found no military units there — only dumbfounded residents who said they had never been under rebel occupation.

    Both Kiev and Washington believe the current crisis is being deliberately fuelled by Russian President Vladimir Putin in a bid to restore former Soviet glory.

    The Kremlin has an estimated 40,000 Russian troops poised on Ukraine's eastern border, prompting Washington yesterday to start deploying 600 US troops to boost NATO's defences in eastern European states bordering Ukraine.

    The first unit of 150 US soldiers arrived in Poland yesterday, with the remainder arriving in Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia in the coming days.

    The detention by the rebels of two journalists — an American working for VICE News, Simon Ostrovsky, and a Ukrainian activist, Irma Krat — in Slavyansk have done nothing to ease the mounting tensions.

    The rebel leader in the town, Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, called Ostrovsky a “journalist provocateur” and promised “we will free him in due course”.

    The US State Department said it was “deeply concerned about the reports of a kidnapping” of Ostrovsky and called for Russia to organise his immediate release.

    Slavyansk was also the source of gunfire that damaged a Ukrainian military reconnaissance plane on Tuesday, and the site of a crime scene where two bodies were found that Kiev's acting president, Oleksandr Turchynov, said had been “brutally tortured”.

    One of the two victims was believed to be a local politician and member of Mr Turchynov's party, which the president used as justification to relaunch the military operations against the insurgents.

    The spiralling violence — while the US and Russia trade accusations of inflaming the situation through proxies in Ukraine — has scuppered a Geneva accord agreed last week between Kiev, Russia and the West that was meant to move Ukraine away from the brink of civil war.



    Separately, the UK, Netherlands and Denmark scrambled fighter jets after two Russian military aircraft were spotted approaching their airspace.
    Earlier, Russia's foreign minister said Moscow would respond to any attack on its interests in Ukraine.

    Ukraine should keep its Migs flying...Russia is now not just bullying on the ground with special forces dressed as civillians causing trouble but in the air now as well.

    LRRPs should be sent to go after Spetznaz and play their game.
    Yes that right- think like the enemy.
    Afterall recon teams are necesary again. The first LRRP units
    were formed in Europe in the 1950's and later went to fight in Vietnam....
    Maybe this is where the legend of Rambo came from.
    Delta became counter-terrorist and their is mention of SAS.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 24-04-2014 at 01:24 PM.

  24. #49
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    I can see patches and unit insignias. Unlike another army operating in the region.
    A sudden training mission in Latvia indicates a level of 'salami tactics' some
    Eastern European nations fear if Russia deliberately forces Ukraines collapse.

    WIESBADEN, Germany (April 25, 2014) -- Approximately 150 Soldiers from the 173rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team (Airborne) in Vicenza, Italy, arrived in Latvia yesterday, to conduct small unit and leader training with members of the Latvian Army.

    This exercise is the second in a series of expanded U.S. land force training activities in the region that are scheduled to take place for the next few months and beyond. This action comes at the request of the host nations in the region and further demonstrates U.S. commitment to NATO.

    The training, not previously scheduled, takes place as the United States continues to demonstrate solidarity with its NATO allies by increased land force presence in Poland and the Baltic States, an enhanced exercise schedule, and increased security cooperation measures with allies in the region.

    Some of the other land forces exercises planned across Europe include:

    • Exercise Rochambeau, scheduled to take place in France in May
    • Exercise Combined Resolve II, scheduled to take place in Germany in May
    • Exercise Saber Strike, scheduled to take place in Lithuania and Latvia in June
    • Exercise Immediate Response, scheduled to take place in Slovenia in August
    • Exercise Saber Junction 14, scheduled to take place in Germany in August
    • Exercise Cooperative Resolve, scheduled to take place in Turkey in September

    Looks like the US Army is in Europe now back in a big way.

    I hope Russian rebels (sorry Spetznaz in diguise) look after European monitors
    or harm them in any way otherwise the warfare in the region could deteriorite
    even further than Putin could imagine. I wonder when American soldiers
    will be forced to dress in Russian uniforms and play at their own game.
    Russia better be careful.



    DONETSK, Ukraine — International negotiators rushed to eastern Ukraine on Saturday to seek the release of European military monitors who were captured Friday and promptly branded “spies” by the pro-Russia militia that seized them.

    The detention of the monitors instantly raised the stakes in an already fraught drama pitting the Ukrainian government against motley bands of separatists who have overtaken city halls across the country’s eastern half.

    Well if there spies they certainly look too obvious. Spies are people who can weasel their
    way into the highest offices some would even say right to the Presidential guard in Russia.
    Don't want to go any further than that.

    Rafale sent to back up Polish positions. No JSF in sight j/k.

    France is to deploy four Dassault Rafale fighters to Poland as regional tensions continue to rise in light of the Russian annexation of Crimea and the escalating crisis in eastern Ukraine, the French Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed to a French publication on 24 April.

    The Rafales will arrive at Malbork Airbase on Poland's Baltic coast on 28 April, Air & Cosmos was told, and will be crewed by personnel from EC-1/7 'Provence', based at Saint-Dizier, and EC-2/30 'Normandie-Niemen' from Mont-de-Marsan.

    While NATO officials have previously told IHS Jane's that the Rafales will not be directly involved in air policing missions, instead assisting with training, the French MoD has said they will be deployed 'in a defensive posture'.

    The French deployment to Malbork Airbase will free up the same number of Polish Air Force MiG-29 'Fulcrum' fighters to deploy to Siauliai Airbase in Lithuania as part of the NATO Baltic air policing mission. The Polish-led mission in Lithuania will be bolstered by four UK Royal Air Force (RAF) Eurofighter Typhoons at Siauliai Airbase, and four Royal Danish Air Force Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcons operating out of Amari Airbase in Estonia.

    While the US Air Force (USAF) has returned the 10 Boeing F-15C Eagle fighters and single Boeing KC-135 tanker it had committed to the Baltic mission back to their homebase of RAF Lakenheath in the UK, it retains 12 F-16 fighters in Poland and six F-16s in Romania. No date has been put on when these aircraft will be returned to their home stations in Germany.

    Further to the Danish, French, Polish, UK, and US fighter deployments, Canada announced on 17 April it is to send six Boeing CF-18 Hornet fighters to Poland (although no date has yet been set), while the Czech offer of four Saab Gripens to assist any regional country that requires them remains. In addition, Sweden sent two Gripens to Lithuania in early April to assist with training, and Germany has offered six Typhoons to help bolster the Portuguese Air Force's Baltic Air Policing rotation of four F-16s that is set to commence on 1 September.

    According to NATO, "decisions regarding whether to continue with an enhanced air policing presence in the region will be made in due time".
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 27-04-2014 at 01:27 PM.

  25. #50
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    racing death
    Deaths Chariot

    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...


    Colonel Axel Schneider from Germany, who spoke for the group of military observers detained on Friday, stressed that they were on a diplomatic mission under the auspices of the Organisation of Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) and were not spying for Nato, as the insurgents claim.

    One of these observers, a Swedish national, has been released back to the OSCE on medical grounds but the other seven remain captive.

    That colonel look ill at ease and that Russian soldier is obviously looking closely at him that he does not
    leak anything about them- indirectly. Yes he is Russian special forces all right,

    Russian blackmail. While Russian special forces prevents unarmed independent observers in Eastern Ukraine all suspicious should fall on them.
    They by all indications have something to hide. The burden of proof shall fall upon them. So far Russian special operations have been very
    successful assassinating politicians, burning police stations attacking military bases is not random its very pre-mediatiated- probably
    to soften up for a larger incursion like in Georgia in 2008. If the tactics are similar they don't seem to change. Their skill is way
    beyond a regular insurgent as most of the Western media has been duped by elite soldiers who specialise in assassination, psy-ops
    and sabotage. They usually have a badge with a bat on it. We know who you are.

    were your badge you idiot- were observing your behaviour and guess what I don't need a badge when I understand tactics.

    The Swedish team member was allowed to leave with a delegation of OSCE negotiators on Sunday. The separatists said they let him go on the grounds that he had mild diabetes, but had no immediate plans to free the others.

    lets not kid ourselves those so-called 'separatists' are held on orders direct from the Kremlin.
    Don't let a few minutes go by for pro-Putin propaganda- helpless puppets.

    The US has released a number of photographs that appear to show the presence of Russian special forces in eastern Ukraine.
    The pictures, supplied by Ukrainian diplomats, purport to identify well equipped Russian military in different cities in eastern Ukraine.
    Washington says there is a broad consensus across the international community that Russia is engaged in a programme of destabilisation in the country.

    Jen Psaki, is a spokesperson at the US State Department: “Well, we’ve stated the case pretty strongly publicly before these photos were out there, before we were talking about them in terms of our belief that there is a strong connection between Russia and the armed militants that we’ve seen in eastern Ukraine and Crimea and other places. So, this is more just further photographic evidence of that.” The Kremlin has yet to respond to the publication of the pictures.

    accoding to my friends in high places this particular soldier was very active in Chechnya as well.

    the same people appearing- all over again. I don't think thats a co-incidence.

    (To our Russian special forces or Internal Services or Strategic Nuclear Forces viewers please note)-
    Для наших российских спецслужб или внутренних служб или стратегических ядерных сил обратите внимание-

    Я уверен, что большинство россиян в военной понимаю, это именно с теми, ранга , что ядерная война с США было бы самоубийством без победителя . У нас есть упражнение с вами, прежде чем в мирное время не так давно , и мы отдаем себе отчет ваших ядерного потенциала .

    Ваши политические лидеры не заботятся о вас или соотечественников они имеют ядерные бункеры , чтобы скрыть то время как нас обоих будет вернуться домой, чтобы мертвых городов и отравленных сельхозугодий с семьями , чтобы похоронить с обеих сторон. Держите глаз на них, как мы держим глаза на наши. Ваши лидеры threatern войну с США, но не говорят вам, мы можем принять ответные меры так же тяжело, как вы нападаете внесения каких-либо ядерная война между нами бесполезно. Они не показывают фильмы на ужасах ядерной войны либо в конце концов в России у вас есть ядерное оружие - так что мы . Ваши средства разведки на Западе легко identifable и округляется , если ситуация в Украине обострилась - у нас есть отсутствует манифест от того, когда , прежде чем на работу Snowden . Как вы также знаете, у нас людей внутри вашей системы , которые были активированы . что может означать Able Archer снова и снова. Каждая сторона в настоящее время , вероятно,

    В конце концов , если Россия уже непосредственно угрожает его там будет автоматическая эскалация DEFCOM как Welll как растущего глобального присутствия.Я надеюсь, что они контролировать их политическое руководство за любые глупые ходов и решений , потому что если она когда-либо гаснет в Кремле хорошо ... они знают, что произойдет дальше. Я знаю их сила - борьба глубоко внутри внутри российской разведки , как ГРУ может впасть в Ловушка в Украине ...

    Im sure most Russians in the Military do realise this of especially those rank that a nuclear war with the US would be suicide with no winner.
    We have exercised with you before in peacetime not so long ago and we are quite aware of your strategic & nuclear capabilities. Your sudden change of policy in 2008 has disturbed us and in 2014 we are almost at a point of no return.

    Your political leaders don't care about you or fellow Russians they have nuclear bunkers to hide while both of us will come home to dead cities and poisoned farmlands with families to bury on both sides. Keep a eye on them as we keep a eye on ours. Your leaders threatern war with the US but don't tell you we can retaliate just as hard as you attack making any nuclear war between us futile. They don't show movies on the horrors of nuclear war either afterall in Russia you have nukes- so do we.

    Your intelligence assets in the West are easily identifable and would be rounded up if the situation in the Ukraine escalated- we have a missing manifest from when before you recruited Snowden. As you also know we have people inside your system who have been activated. That could mean Able Archer all over again. Each side is now probably watching each other closely and rightly so.

    Afterall if Russia has already directly threatened it there would be a automatic escalation in DEFCOM as welll as a increased global presence. I hope they monitor their political leadership for any stupid moves or decisions because if it ever goes dark in the Kremlin well...they know what happens next. I know their is power-struggle deep inside inside Russian intelligence as the GRU could be led into a trap in the Ukraine...

    As others are aware- it will happen once the situation changes for the worse in the Ukraine- thats when the final or fatal decision will be made.

    2014 is a repeat of 1983. CIA and KGB types can nod and agree here.

    Russia launches first strike code name VRYAN. America counter-attacks from all directions- nuclear winter- human extinction- game over.
    Putin was a understudy of Andropov...thats why many are worried. The head of the KGB was super paranoid about the West at the time.

    Yuri Andropov, the head of the Soviet KGB intelligence agency, tells a group of KGB officers that the US is actively preparing for war with the USSR, and warns of “the possibility of a nuclear first strike” by the Americans. The KGB describes the program thusly: “One of the chief directions for the activity of the KGB’s foreign service is to organize detection and assessment of signs of preparation [for a surprise nuclear attack] in all possible areas, i.e., political, economic and military sectors, civil defense and the activity of the special services.” Andropov, who will become the head of the Soviet government in 1982, helps direct the KGB and GRU (the Soviet military intelligence agency) to make preparations for that strike its top priority.

    The agencies instruct Soviet agents in NATO capitals and Japan to make “close observation[s] of all political, military, and intelligence activities that might indicate preparations for mobilization.” The program, called VRYAN (the Soviet acronym for “Surprise Nuclear Missile Attack”), takes even greater priority once Andropov rises to power. [FISCHER, 3/19/2007; SCOBLIC, 2008, PP. 134] (Others such as CIA researcher Benjamin Fischer will refer to the program in their writings as “Operation RYAN.”) Fischer will write that VRYAN, or RYAN, is based on “genuine fears” among the Soviet military and political leadership. Andropov’s KGB in particular feels that the international situation, or what the Soviets call the “correlation of world forces,” is “turning against the USSR and increasing its vulnerability.”

    In conjunction with the Reagan’s administration hardline stance towards the Soviet Union, an increase in US-led military exercises and psychological warfare missions conducted close to Soviet borders, and an increase in the US’s ability to thwart Soviet early warning systems, this perception prompts the Soviets to not only voice their concern over the possibility of a US first strike, but to prepare for it. Fischer also notes that in some ways, Operation VRYAN and Moscow’s uneasiness over the US threat is sparked by bitter memories of Operation Barbarossa, the 1941 surprise invasion of the Soviet Union by the Nazis. The program, Fischer will write, abandons caution and the usual tradecraft of intelligence-gathering, and instead relies on often-unreliable data supplied by East German intelligence sources.

    On Tuesday, the European Union published a fresh list of 15 individuals facing travel bans and asset freezes.
    The European Union's list includes Gen Valery Gerasimov, chief of the Russian General Staff, and Lt Gen Igor Sergun, identified as the head of the Russian military intelligence agency, the GRU. It also includes Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Kozak and pro-Russian separatist leaders in Crimea and in the eastern Ukrainian cities of Luhansk and Donetsk.

    The BBC's Matthew Price in Brussels says this list does not appear to follow the US line in targeting President Putin's associates, but rather those involved in events on the ground in Ukraine.

    I think we should play their game now- with a twist.

    Political Assassination and destabilisation- sounds like a job for Spetznaz.

    The mayor of Ukraine's second-largest city has been shot in the back and pro-Russia separatists have seized yet another government building as tensions rise in eastern Ukraine ahead of a new round of US sanctions.

    Hennady Kernes, the mayor of Kharkiv, was shot in the back on Monday morning, his office said. Kernes was said to be undergoing surgery and "doctors are fighting for his life," according to the city hall. Armed separatists in the city are seeking more autonomy in the region from the interim government in Ukraine, which pro-Russia groups do not recognise as legitimate.
    The shooting happened as Barack Obama, the US president, promised to levy new sanctions on Russian individuals and companies in retaliation for Moscow's alleged provocations in eastern Ukraine, the Associated Press news agency.

    I wonder when Spetznaz will become targets themselves. We'll you got to make a mistake sooner
    or later- capturing one of them alive would be a most valuable intel prize.

    The scandalous politicians sent Czechoslavarkia to its doom in 1936 and those idiots have made the same mistake.
    I wonder if Ukraine had never given up its nuclear weapons- the Russians would be running scared instead.
    Hopefully these fools won't be held responsible for the outbreak of the biggest war since WWI.

    In America we remove mentally ill leaders from office- I hope Russia will do the same. Yes
    the Cold War is back and will end the same way it did at 1991- Russia powerless and broke.
    If America suddently returned to early 80's Defence spending Russia would be left in its dust..
    They cannot complete and with their espionage rings being shut down- cannot copy either.
    Im sure many are hunting for Putins assets hidden all over the world including here.
    When Russian people line up for bread again they will know why again- bread is more important than nukes.
    He may be a victim of KGB internal politics before then I think. Somebody will replace him....or kill him.
    Russia's international repuation evaporates by the day Putin is in office and his special forces
    wander unhindered in the Ukraine.


    MOSCOW (Reuters) – U.S. restrictions on high-tech exports to Russia under its latest Ukraine-related sanctions will be a blow to Russian companies in the sector, Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkovsaid on Tuesday. The White House said on Monday the United States would deny export licenses for any high-technology items that could contribute to Russian military capabilities and revoke existing licenses.

    “The seriousness of these measures is absolutely obvious for us,” Ryabkov told gazeta.ru in an online interview. Ryabkov highlighted high-tech cooperation, including launches of satellites, either American-made or containing U.S. components.

    “All this hits at our high-tech enterprises and industries,” he said. Washington, locked in a Cold War-style conflict with Russia over Ukraine, and Moscow are still cooperating on space exploration. Russian rockets are the only way astronauts around the world can get to the International Space Station since NASA ended shuttle flights in 2012.

    While NASA was banned earlier this month from contacting the Russian government, operation of the space station, a $US100 billion research project owned by 15 countries, is exempt. But Sergei Oznobishchev, director at the Institute for Strategic Assessments think-tank in Moscow, said many other joint space exploration projects would suffer immediately.

    “This is a very sensitive issue since our defence industry was completely unprepared for such developments,” he said. “Both sides will suffer but Russia will lose out more in terms of technology transfer.”

    When Russia behaves itself we show them what technology we have in store of for them
    its more than 50 years ahead of them- too bad their should have chosen their
    leaders wisely. We should help our own country first & our allies instead of other countries
    that wish to turn us to ash. Their leaders should have thought of better words- too bad.
    Unlike all those Russophile academics pleading for mercy its unlikerly to happen
    and will get much worse if Russian military movements in the Crimea show
    even the littlest sign of change weather now or in 50 years time or more. However long
    it takes for Russia to grow up- so be it. Afterall Russia conned America
    into diplomatic recognition of Russia in 1933 (Hitler rose to power the same year)
    back during Roosevelts time which turned out be a big mistake after the Holodomor
    in the Ukraine was covered up-under Stalin.
    Let their mistakes continue as the path of oblivion is now theirs...

    Useful Idiots hide in the academia, the media, government, think tanks, financiers and whatnot.
    sooner or later they are found. The said the Nazis ideologies were evil as they were
    the Soviets ideology were just as evil and killed even more and still some people
    think the Soviets were better- fools. Soviet Unions mass grave is in the Ukraine.
    May the blood soaked fingers of the meddling Kremlin be cursed forevermore.

    Its good the NYT learned from the tragic lesson in journalism and why accuracy is so damn important.

    What naïve American intellectuals say free of charge, the canny Gerhard Schröder, the former German chancellor, says for 250,000 euros a year as a board member of Gazprom, the Russian oil giant. Mr. Schröder, the German father of “Gazprom socialism” — a new subspecies of limousine liberalism — has repeatedly embarrassed Berlin by supporting Russia’s annexation of Crimea. He isn’t alone — another former chancellor, Helmut Schmidt, has likewise sung Russia’s praises of late, as has Günter Verheugen, a prominent former European Union commissioner.
    What drives these men? Is it a case of poorly conceived pacifism? An eruption of remorse for war crimes carried out against Russians, so many years ago? Or the Stockholm syndrome of a victim fascinated by his executioner?

    I remember in history when every idiot was shaking Hitlers hand till the blizkreig came.
    Those cypto Russian fascists and their socialist-pacifist enablers are Putins cheap toys
    to be disposed of- when no longer needed. I hope they enjoy their day in the sun while
    it lasts before Putins mass-executions begin...they would not want anybody who helped
    them to realise what they had done now would they? He did a good job in the Caucassus
    and their is no reason why he would not conquer Europe undefended like Hitler did.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 30-04-2014 at 07:56 PM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts