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Thread: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    I think ELSpeedo has left the building. MY answer to your question is that if there was a bomb on board the would be explosives residue on the inside surfaces of the fuselage. I understand none has been found or we would be hearing "terrorist bombing".

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    I think ELSpeedo has left the building. MY answer to your question is that if there was a bomb on board the would be explosives residue on the inside surfaces of the fuselage. I understand none has been found or we would be hearing "terrorist bombing".
    I would have to agree with that, if they had the slightest evidence that could point the finger elsewhere it would have been 'paraded around town' long ago but the silence is fairly ominous. As for Abbott he is what everyone in this country thought they needed, if you want any further commentary out of me tell me what you see the average Aussie as and I can have a laugh at your naivety.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    But they haven't found anything at the crash site. The Ukrainians started disturbing the wreckage ASAP and the investigators can't do a thorough examination because it's a "war zone". Does it not surprise you that it was a Malaysian Airlines plane that went down?.
    Having a "go" at Vladamir Putin is not going to help the situation one bit. If anything it will just make him more insular and stubborn and flatly refuse to cooperate.
    As for the average aussie they only voted in Liberal to get rid of Labour and as usual they believed all the crap the politicians spout before elections.
    Maybe I am naive but unlike you I don't put myself on a pedestal saying that what I write is the truth and if anyone thinks differently they are a piece of dumb s**t. Don't rely on media reports and you tube videos or government press releases as they have nothing to do with truth.
    Last edited by cleaner; 19-10-2014 at 07:33 AM.
    "Friendship is like wetting your pants. Everyone can see it but you are the only one to feel it's warmth."

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    No message
    Last edited by Stevo; 19-10-2014 at 11:19 AM.



  5. #105
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by cleaner View Post
    But they haven't found anything at the crash site. The Ukrainians started disturbing the wreckage ASAP and the investigators can't do a thorough examination because it's a "war zone". Does it not surprise you that it was a Malaysian Airlines plane that went down?.
    Having a "go" at Vladamir Putin is not going to help the situation one bit. If anything it will just make him more insular and stubborn and flatly refuse to cooperate.
    As for the average aussie they only voted in Liberal to get rid of Labour and as usual they believed all the crap the politicians spout before elections.
    Maybe I am naive but unlike you I don't put myself on a pedestal saying that what I write is the truth and if anyone thinks differently they are a piece of dumb s**t. Don't rely on media reports and you tube videos or government press releases as they have nothing to do with truth.
    If you cannot rely on politicians, media print, TV, internet or you tube then how do the hell you know what is going on around you in this world when you don't trust anything.

    Stories can be blown out of proportion at times but not everything is a lie, in the Ukraine incident they did have investigators there for a short period & believe me they are trained quite well & would have done an analysis, collected small samples & photographed extensively to get an idea of what happened considering they were in an active war zone.

    As for politics both Labour & Liberals are seeking answers on this & are not opposing each other of the Handling of this matter, if any Bill Shorten speaks bad of Putin as much as Tony Abbott does.
    Last edited by PD56; 19-10-2014 at 11:27 AM.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by PD56 View Post
    If you cannot rely on politicians, media print, TV, internet or you tube then how do the hell you know what is going on around you in this world when you don't trust anything.

    Stories can be blown out of proportion at times but not everything is a lie, in the Ukraine incident they did have investigators there for a short period & believe me they are trained quite well & would have done an analysis, collected small samples & photographed extensively to get an idea of what happened considering they were in an active war zone.

    As for politics both Labour & Liberals are seeking answers on this & are not opposing each other of the Handling of this matter, if any Bill Shorten speaks bad of Putin as much as Tony Abbott does.
    The mass media do not take an oath to tell the truth but pander to what they think people want to hear or what they think people should think. So much of what is reported as truth has loads of vested interests from media owners and politicians.

    Both Abbott and Shorten have to play for political points because their approval ratings would plummet if they said lets wait and see what the investigation uncovers. If they said that they'd be happy to see Mr Putin at the G20 to have meaningful and civilised discussions on the downing of MH17 then they would look weak and would seem to be appeasing the Russians. The Americans wouldn't like that.
    No instead it's much better to play the bully at least publicly then some of the voters think they are strong people.
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    The thing is that investigators have had a chance, and after episodes like Lockerbie investigators have learned a lot about plane bombings if anybody remembers that far back. Every explosive has a residue signature and as a result of the explosive event those trace chemicals get spread over a large area of the interior, a small fragment is enough to give the game away in most cases. If the investigators had even a little bit of evidence then the ground forces there would be making sure they were somehow made to look like the not so bad guys that the people of the world think they are now. Any decent investigation will be hindered by the current situation as is and there isn't much that anyone is willing to do to change that at this time.

    My thinking on Abbots posturing is that Australia's influence in this matter is more a case of we are a small part of a much bigger crowd and his antics are not a good fit for the situation, but his attitude is common enough in this country.


    Maybe I am naive but unlike you I don't put myself on a pedestal saying that what I write is the truth and if anyone thinks differently they are a piece of dumb s**t.
    Ouch, no that isn't what I think but I have seen far to many people who's opinion of themselves isn't what others would say of them in recent years to kid myself any more. The average Australian is starting to think a lot like America of years gone by and I remain unconvinced that it is of any benefit to the country or the individual to keep doing so but the subject seems to get the same nasty snarl as a first response every time I bring it up so whatever.
    Last edited by Redwight; 19-10-2014 at 02:56 PM.

  8. #108
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  9. #109
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    On Kitchen Cabinet last night with Bob Hawke, Annabel Crabb asked him if America would ever get over it's addiction to firearms. His reply was that the political parties were so terrified of the NRA that none have got the "balls" to stand up to the NRA especially when the NRA are massive donors to political parties.
    His favourite president was Ronald Reagan because he said that Reagan was not a genius and didn't think that he was.
    Hawke has certainly made some money out of serving his country with a water front home in Sydney which is accessed by boat to a jetty then an electric lift to the house which is multi storey and has an elevator inside with a putting green on the roof.
    As for the Ukraine it seems to have gone very quiet over there so I gather that the media has found something else to blow out of all proportion.
    "Friendship is like wetting your pants. Everyone can see it but you are the only one to feel it's warmth."

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    I remember when the flight was first reported. the news said it had been shot down by the Ukrainian military and I suspect that is correct. The story was changed very quickly and that could mean two things - they got the right story or they covered up the incident. Only those doing the enquiry will have access to any evidence that can prove or maybe disprove who did it. The biggest problem is that the separatists have captured weapons and a lot of these Ukrainian weapons are Russian sourced anyway so you may prove it was a Russian anti aircraft missle but who owned it and who fired it is a totally different matter.
    The other thing I find perplexing is that both Malaysian Airline planes that met with misfortune were Boeing 777 which has had a problem with video screens in the cockpit going blank. Not much has been said on this aspect but I wonder if people who now refuse to fly with MA are being consistent and refusing to fly on Boeing 777s flown by other airlines. We haven't heard much of the results of the enquiry and i suspect that is because the results don't back up the posturing that been taken by the West.
    As for the shirtfront I think that it just meant he was going to tackle him face to face without fear, which is the essence of a shirtfront tackle in Aussie Rules.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by cleaner View Post
    On Kitchen Cabinet last night with Bob Hawke, Annabel Crabb asked him if America would ever get over it's addiction to firearms. His reply was that the political parties were so terrified of the NRA that none have got the "balls" to stand up to the NRA especially when the NRA are massive donors to political parties.
    It is not a matter of standing up to NRA, too many Americans believe it is their right to bear arms so no political party will ever endorse a policy to stop firearm ownership unless they want to lose voters.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by trueblu View Post
    It is not a matter of standing up to NRA, too many Americans believe it is their right to bear arms so no political party will ever endorse a policy to stop firearm ownership unless they want to lose voters.
    Maybe they can't ban them as you say but perhaps they could get away with limiting them to one automatic weapon per person except for collectors. That would at least have some impact.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    You cannot walk in & buy automatic weapon any more in America, very strict controls & conditions apply, this all changed in the late 80's.
    There is a lot of military style semi automatic weapons that people confuse for Automatics.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by PD56 View Post
    You cannot walk in & buy automatic weapon any more in America, very strict controls & conditions apply, this all changed in the late 80's.
    There is a lot of military style semi automatic weapons that people confuse for Automatics.
    and you will likely find that in under an hour you could convert them to full auto.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Yes & no depends on the design of weapon, we are not really talking about illegal modifications just the comment made by Bob Hawke in regards to NRA position among the political powers which was bought up by post #110 & #111

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Well Putin has arrived for the G20 in Brisbane and some in the media have said that he doesn't care how much western leaders protest to him over flight MH17 as with 4,000 nuclear warheads in Russia his stance is don't push too hard. Of course the firing of nuclear warheads at anybody would only be a Pyrrhic victory as so many other nations that have them too.
    It seems that Russia is going backwards and is losing freedoms that were gained after the fall of communism. I remember one Russian citizen saying that the capitalist way of life was no good for Russia and he was in his early 20's. He said that Russia needs the strong authoritarian state rather than the multi party system.
    Investigators have collected more bodies but once again it's just too dangerous to remain in the area and try and remove aircraft parts.
    Perhaps the western leaders will have to find someway of getting Putin by the "balls" so that his heart and mind will follow.
    "Friendship is like wetting your pants. Everyone can see it but you are the only one to feel it's warmth."

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by cleaner View Post
    Well Putin has arrived for the G20 in Brisbane and some in the media have said that he doesn't care how much western leaders protest to him over flight MH17 as with 4,000 nuclear warheads in Russia his stance is don't push too hard. Of course the firing of nuclear warheads at anybody would only be a Pyrrhic victory as so many other nations that have them too.
    It seems that Russia is going backwards and is losing freedoms that were gained after the fall of communism. I remember one Russian citizen saying that the capitalist way of life was no good for Russia and he was in his early 20's. He said that Russia needs the strong authoritarian state rather than the multi party system.
    Investigators have collected more bodies but once again it's just too dangerous to remain in the area and try and remove aircraft parts.
    Perhaps the western leaders will have to find someway of getting Putin by the "balls" so that his heart and mind will follow.
    That is the reason why oil has gone down in price. It is to affect the Russian economy, at least that is how i see it.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by chinamonty View Post
    That is the reason why oil has gone down in price. It is to affect the Russian economy, at least that is how i see it.
    So you are saying oil over production (cheaper oil) is deliberate to effect Russia economy, does this not have the same impact on other countries if this was the case, if any cheaper oil could be a boost to some countries economy.
    Last edited by PD56; 01-12-2014 at 08:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by PD56 View Post
    So you are saying oil over production (cheaper oil) is deliberate to effect Russia economy, does this not have the same impact on other countries if this was the case, if any cheaper oil could be a boost to some countries economy.

    yes to me it appears it is doubled edge (but I could be wrong). As well as to affect Russia, OPEC are keeping production up so it makes US Shale Oil less of an economic prospect but the West are happy because a lot of the Russian economy relies on petro-chemical sales. Reducing the amount that Russia gets for its products is better than any boycott as it is harder to point the finger at particular countries. I think it is probably affecting the Rouble exchange rate as well but I haven't looked at that.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Agreed. The West is putting Putin back in his box. Saudi Arabia can wear it for a while and they really don't give a rat's ass about Venezuela and Nigeria; they never have.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    I like Putin as he is a person who stands up for the good of his nation.

    I don't like Obama at all, I think he is very nasty the way he plays his games.

    Putin is trying to bring Russia out of communism, and no one could dispute that at all.

    Obama is making out that Russia is still a mob of communist and Obama is only helping or trying to push it back into that position as the Russians do not trust the USA at all with there games.

    As to the plane that came down they are ranting over, can you see any reason why Putin would want to shoot it down as there is not one reason for it in his favour at all, it's just madness. I can't believe the prejudice created around it all.

    If Obama mob never got involved in all this from the start there would not be a problem and the killing and all would not of come about.

    I would say Let Europe deal with Russia from the start, as it's there own back yard and they know what they are doing, than to have some moron yank come along pushing there weight around in things that don't really concern them, unless Europe ask them for help.

    The USA leaders are morons nowadays as just look at it they can't even run their own nation for crying out loud, they are backward with no hope, traitors to there own people and to God. the communistic socialist *****s or the extreme left have taken over it and the extreme right have robed it as well. they support all this lowest denominator garbage and have no direction for the future.
    The grubs have sold the USA out, and there is no excuse at all for it.

    The USA was the greatest nation on Earth, now look at it, it's just a *****, as it sticks out like dogs balls that the government is so corrupt and in bed with the so called Zionist they are Zionist Nazi's that are on the path for world war 3.

    Tell me how a great nation like the USA could fall as it has with out corruption from with in.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    The US president is at best a figurehead for corporate America and where Russia and China are concerned the Defence industries have a vested interest to keep stirring the muck so they have a 'reason to be'.

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    Default Re: Meanwhile in the Ukraine...

    Quote Originally Posted by chinamonty View Post
    The US president is at best a figurehead for corporate America and where Russia and China are concerned the Defence industries have a vested interest to keep stirring the muck so they have a 'reason to be'.
    I agree.
    But Russia as it's no real big problem, and best we all not be to hasty in sling stupid nonsense around, the world does not need that type of hostility that Obama is pushing, we should all strive to get along with each other at all times.

    Corporate America needs a good looking into.

    I have always looked down on the left as trash, but now the far right is trash as well, as it's an evil monster that created the far left ratbag commos in the first place.

    One could say 'Corporate so called Zionist' created communism and the German Nazi situation that led to WW2. all them people got killed and went through hell, for what !
    We are socialist nation now ?
    The Nazis have won !! and now they are pushing others around and getting away with saying just total nonsense.

    Why do they feed China, them commos don't know any bounds and then hand them the keys.

    Nazi Germany was a power house before WW2 that scared the daylights out of Britten's wealthy, that it had to attack Germany or it had no hope of being and staying number one in Europe, as Germany was on the path to wipe the floor with them economically.
    So why would the Corporate mafia feed China and let USA fall into chaos just to let some moronic dictator rule the world ?

    All the west capitalism has fed Communism, look at the money they have poured in to them over all the years, why !! they would of fallen over dead with out there help to prop them all up.

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