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Thread: No F-22 for Australia

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    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
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    Default No F-22 for Australia


    Just the budget JSF- I won't give the abbreviation but it pales compared
    to the F-22 in capability. Our Hornets while very good are being outclassed
    now by Indonsia's new Fleet of SU-30's- making the fight now more than even.
    While we may share a advantage in EW technology their aerial fighting force
    is no longer in balance and with the precarious nature of SE Asian affairs
    much can change...very quickly. Few realise we were unoficially at war
    with Indonesia in Borneo in the 60's... Menzies bought the F-111's to bomb
    Jakarta....

    http://www.ausairpower.net/bug.html
    Hornet vs Flanker- I think though the journo wrote our Hornets off a bit too much.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...9-2703,00.html
    http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Media...-140207-1.html
    http://www.aspi.org.au/publications/...=115&pubtype=9


    Quote-
    "If Australia wished to buy the F-22, this matter can only be negotiated at the highest level, directly between the Prime Minister and the US President."

    We've looked after the Americans since WWII, Korea, Vietnam and now Iraq
    & Afganistan and they are still willing to sell us the dumbed out equipment
    rather than the cutting edge. I find this offensive to say the least when they
    are happy to sell to Isreal (remember the Pollard affair) and Japan (world capital
    for industrial espionage after China of course). Australia does not factor highly. I fear with
    a change of events globally a second Darwin could happen and by lack of
    air superiority and strike capability we could be in some serious stuff...


    If we look back to the AIR79/82 (woops!) procurement of the F-18 back in the Hawke era- we looked at the following jets-

    1. Mirage 2000
    2. LMTAS F-16C Falcon
    3. Boeing F-18 Hornet
    4. Boeing F-15C Eagle
    5. Tornado F.3/IDS
    6. F-14 Tomcat
    7. 'Uprated' Mirage Fleet

    We sent our RAAF boys and engineers to pick out. The F-15 was the clear winner by miles. However the US somehow never gave us the F-15 and now we are faced again with a second tier aircraft for the backbone of our fleet. ATleast the Hornet could have a 'serious refit' as the JSF would require more OS fits than local hindering major refits to compensate.

    It looks like Air87 all over again. Atleast back then we had a big choice on aircraft it seems now we have been pushed in the JSF without even evaluating other 'equiverlent' or better options. I think defence procurement is rather corrupt these days and political wrangling is leaving us with the second best when the RAAF does deserve better. Especially the fact that the JSF is years away from delivery and major USAF flight testing.

    http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002341.html
    If we only bought Eagles instead of Hornet we could have updated them to the F-15X standard...and actually now saved money!
    Or shoehorned some of the thurst vectoring goodies of the F-15STOL....and made it a near equal to the F-22
    and eat the Latest Russian fighters for breakfast...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 24-07-2007 at 10:02 AM.

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    Talking Re: No F-22 for Australia

    We probably disagree here, but I feel that our not getting F22 would be more due to US political issues domestically, than our not being trusted with it.

    As you well know, it has been a hot potato for a long time now in Washington.

    Plus, it would be more prudent of us to get our hands on it once it's been field tested in combat.

    Or we could tease the yanks and tell them we will look at the Eurogfighter seriously now......

    All that said - I love F22, and would love for the RAAF to be flying it.

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    from abc news online;


    Defence signs off on Super Hornet deal
    The Defence Department has signed the first of its contracts to buy 24 F/A-18F fighter jets from the US Navy under a $6 billion program.

    The Super Hornets are set to replace Australia's ageing F-111s, which are due to retire in 2010.

    Announcing today's $2.9 billion contract, the Defence Department says the planes will ensure Australia maintains its air combat capability ahead of the transition to the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter from 2015.

    The department plans to buy up to 100 F-35s for $19 billion in the biggest military acquisition project in Australian history.

    The department says the $6 billion F/A-18F program covers support costs and personnel for the fighter jets over 10 years.

    Australian pilots will start Super Hornet training in the US in 2009 and the plane is to come into service the following year.

    "The F/A-18F Super Hornet is a highly capable, battle proven, multi-role aircraft that is currently in service with the US Navy through to 2030." it said in a statement.

    "The Block II Super Hornet has considerable similarity in support, training and tactics to our current fleet of F/A-18 and therefore, allows a relatively rapid and low-risk transition for our current air combat force."

    The planes will be based at the RAAF's Amberley base, west of Brisbane

    furry ford fan


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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    2030? Boeing will have the next generation jet- and possibly the last of the pilot flown ones by then....
    The F-15 may still be operational- lol

    Reguarding the Super Hornet FA/18F lease :-

    Reminds me how we leased F-4E's from the USAF in 1973-79? while we waited for a considerable time for the F-111's....

    Wasting money on leasing when we could buy a jet straight off the shelf.
    Yes Kraken stuff the JSF the Eurofighter would make quick work of it in
    a dogfight. A single engined aircraft is never a favorite amoung pilots...
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 03-05-2007 at 08:27 PM.



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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    We probably disagree here, but I feel that our not getting F22 would be more due to US political issues domestically, than our not being trusted with it.

    As you well know, it has been a hot potato for a long time now in Washington.

    Plus, it would be more prudent of us to get our hands on it once it's been field tested in combat.

    Or we could tease the yanks and tell them we will look at the Eurogfighter seriously now......

    All that said - I love F22, and would love for the RAAF to be flying it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUUMn5j8ks4&NR=1
    I cannot report on test results. As you know many are
    still classified. For obvious reason.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp9wu...elated&search=
    In thrust we trust. Can a JSF do that?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2XWV...elated&search=
    I tell them by their noises.

    and no I don't work for Lockheed Martin so this is not a promotion.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 15-05-2007 at 10:19 AM.

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    Talking Re: No F-22 for Australia

    Cheers for those links - good viewing

    F22 is soooo much more agile - lighter on its feet (wings) as it were.

    Makes the others look like a London Bus in comparison.

    Now some of the comments - priceless!
    I am become Death: The Destroyer of Worlds.

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    I hope all those JSF partners remain friends.

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    Cheers for those links - good viewing

    F22 is soooo much more agile - lighter on its feet (wings) as it were.

    Makes the others look like a London Bus in comparison.

    Now some of the comments - priceless!
    Those Russians hark on about their Su27/35 this and Mig29 that.
    They barely match the current F-15C MSIP and latest Block 50 F-16
    and our Hornets could embarrass them. The Russians maintenance
    of their aircraft has always been suspect. Look how many of them
    have crashed in Airshows ! I know what G Tolerances the F-15
    and F-18 were designed for and if a Russian plane tried some of those
    stunts they would rip their wings off...

    Their is one 3 planes in existence that could take the F-22 on fairly even terms
    - or the fact more even. The F-15 STOL prototypes by McDonnell Douglas
    then over to NASA. They were the avoinics testbeds for F22 stuff as well
    I think...

    The USAF is considering the F-15 airframe updates to the Golden Eagle standard
    to make up for the shortfall of F-22 orders. Hopefully some of the STOL goodies
    will go with it. JSF is a expensive flop and with the Eurofighter and F-22 available
    what's with the JSF? Scrap the JSF and build more F-22's or atleast upgrade
    the F-15/ F-16 fleets.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUdt6...elated&search=
    More stunts.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 28-05-2007 at 10:08 AM.

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    http://www.aviation-news.co.uk/Lockh...mic%20duo.html

    Or is it the need of more aircraft in a war of attrition instead of less
    more expensive planes?

    Quote-
    In the 1980s it was planned that 750 ATFs would be produced, in order to replace F-15s on roughly a one-for-one basis.
    However, the USAF now plans to keep 170 F-15Es and 48 ANG F-15Cs(new Airframe stealth thrust vectoring F-15C's??) in service until at least 2025.

    Nor can it be doubted that during this period the F-15 (with radar upgrade) will be perfectly capable of
    dealing with the fighter opposition, although it would clearly lack penetration capability.

    However in the F-15s defense...
    F-22 is simply not revolutionary enough is that it represents little improvement over the F-15 in terms of dependence on overseas bases.



    As I've always said the F-15 is such a bloody good aircraft it would come second to a UFO- lol or perhaps a F-22 I knew that 5 bloody years ago. Not enough F-22s and un-upgraded F-15's leaves a big gap in USAF capability.
    While your at it, bring the F-14s out of retirement and maybe old HABU as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnQpl...elated&search=
    Another zoom-climb courtesy of....
    He could climb quicker than that though like a car motor you put wear on the engines.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLThc...elated&search=
    Control, you said where is the Space Shuttle, there it is
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 20-07-2009 at 11:20 AM.

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    My opinion -- USAF gets a stealth toy, USN has a cry thus JSF is born

    Sure the F-22 kicks arse in comparison but we get more JSF's than Raptors this way (providing the price is right -- We all know prices can change easily, look at petrol prices now that theres an investigation )

    Speaking of EF2000 being ghey -- Download this vid, I laughed for a week.

    http://www.eurofighter.com/medialibr...lose%20320.mpg

    We should look at SAAB aircraft, JA-39 is a BEAST! Way better than Eurofighter.

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    c'mon Eurofighter is a arm of BaE they are going to be far from biased.
    The Eurofighter has a even bigger downside than the JSF much shorter
    range. It cannot 'supercruise' either.

    The second disadvantage is it has no real stealth and would
    have trouble negotiating enemy airspace with 4th generation SAM system
    and would need Wild Weasel support. The other fact is that the USAF
    only recently said their F-15 was matched by only one plane the Eurofighter.
    It took NATO allies 20 years to get close to it
    When the Golden Eagle updates with MSIP blocks are implemented by 2009
    any advantage will be nullified in BVR and short range updates with off-boresight
    aim of AIM-9x systems.

    The reason why I love the old girl is that she can just plug in so much stuff to keep her up to date.
    Sure wish my PC were this upgradeable.


    I believe the Isrealis already have these updates bar the newer engines.
    Though they use the Python-3/4 aam which should have been used on
    the Hornets instead of the old AIM-9Ms.

    Here is a question to ask your Eurofighter friends. Hows airframe life?
    Thats one reason why the Eurofighter never made it. A few high speed
    G stunts and its feels like a trashed F-16 after many thousands of hours
    less service due to poor airframe design.

    If you look up close and see the IR sensors in the nose of the missile- there a 3 sensors so it is a true
    a all aspect 'way off boresight' close range missile.

    Quote-
    The fourth generation Python 4 was developed during the late eighties and early nineties, deploying on Israeli F-15 and F-16 fighters during the early nineties. The missile and its associated Elbit DASH (Display And Sight Helmet) third generation HMS were developed specifically to outperform the Soviet Archer/HMS and MiG-29, both of which deployed in the Middle East by the early nineties.

    Unlike the Eurofighter- combat proven as well.

    I believe originally and still do the USN wanted a navalised Raptor and instead got the
    Super Hornet and their lost long range BVR with the demise of the F-14D. If the Chinese
    had SU-30's on carriers well...

    The JSF is the new lightweight fighter project not unlike the f-16 was for NATO and in terms
    of capability is hardly a jump from the F-16 apart from obvious stealth attributes
    not to mention being somewhat underpowered. The fact of a single engine
    would remind some older RAAF pilots the widowmaker name like the Mirage.

    Though protracted conflicts and limited rules of engagement may nullify stealth in a real war....

    Funny how the Americans have mothballed the Tomcat when the Russians have
    continuously updated their equivalent the Mig31 Foxhound- supposedly with
    a 'stealth hunter' radar. Though that remains to be seen.
    http://warfare.ru/?linkid=1601&catid=255

    Quote-
    Russian radar power is an interesting thing...people criticize the primitive nature of the Foxbat's FOXFIRE set, but it would be able to burn through any sort of jamming. However, Belenko defects, paranoia ensues, new radar for the MiG-25, the less powerful High Lark IV. It was a criminal offense to turn on the radar on the ground; FOXFIRE could kill a rabbit at like 50 yards or something. Read Belenko's book.

    http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/arc...hp?t-6244.html
    I believe that Russian radar had around 600kw+ of power at its disposal.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFiaT1yIKOM&NR=1
    Excuse me
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 28-02-2009 at 01:32 PM.

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    wheres the point of mentioning japen etc getting amercian toys while we dont?
    NOONE else is gonna get the f22 full stop.

    Australia dosnt need a supority fighter, which is what the f15 and f22 are.
    Thats why we got the hornet and getting the jsf, its capable of more then just blowing planes out of the sky. Our airforce isnt big enough to have a differant plane for every task.

    Besides the "fleet" of SU-30s our nothern neighbours have dosnt have the all powerful radar. Not to mention the questionable maintance of anything (commerical and military) flying in that area anyhow.

    The jsf is a good aircraft in its own right, just because it dosnt compare dogfight wise to a f22 dosnt mean its uncapable.
    I wonder how a f22 would go without its thurst vectoring, or how a jsf would go with that level of vectoring (+- 22 degrees in the vertical plane if i remember correctly)

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    Quote Originally Posted by ROSSBoss View Post
    wheres the point of mentioning japen etc getting amercian toys while we dont?
    NOONE else is gonna get the f22 full stop.
    Well we do have different jets for different roles-

    Hawks for training and FAC
    Hornets for light ground attack and air superiority
    and F111s for mud moving. (now SuperDuperHornets F/A-18F)

    We actually have quite a diverse fleet.

    Well if you speaking 'that way' it could be due to espionage concerns.
    However I think the Isreali Air Force will. I wonder if USAF pilots flew
    during the 6 day war and Yom Kippur? Who knows. Russian pilots
    flew for the Syrians. Bekaa Valley? They need to battle test the
    F-22 just like the F-15. Its like a unranked boxer otherwise.
    Isreal got the F-15 before everyone else....

    You don't demonstrate a plane at air shows if you don't
    intend on looking at potential customers.

    Osama Bin Laden came from Saudi Arabia. We gave them
    F-15s. I always wonder about that decision. Well the
    British want to sell the Eurofighter to them...

    Then we are involved in with government secrecy acts,
    foreign weaponry restrictions acts
    and politics. It gets very confusing after this.

    We are the only country apart from the US to get the F-111
    so the USAF does trust us with stuff. We like the British have
    exercised very closely for a long time. We also have ECHELON
    resources- so we are very trusted for the F-22 I think.

    Heres a bit of Australian aviation trivia only the US, Britain
    and Australia had the B-29 in service. As you can see our
    close relationship goes way back. It was the worlds first
    nuclear capable bomber at the time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ress_operators

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBBz4Eo4Gak
    One of the top 3 in best dogfights my books. The other two are still classified-
    or part of legend. Well before missiles were around. Its not the machine its always the pilot.
    I think its premature to say dogfights are over. They said in Vietnam missiles would
    solve everything- wrong. In the Gulf War F-15 vs Mig29 fights were up close.

    American F-15 and Russian SU-27's have played radar games before.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 11-12-2009 at 11:45 AM.

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    the jsf which one are we getting?
    there ae 3 rember one is supose to replace the harrier jump jet which whould actully suit aust current postion in the world.
    but the 18 should be replaced with the f15 golden eagles if we cant have the f22
    but what can we use to replace the f111 i dont think there is a really capable fighter bomber atm
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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5LM0e6YUmI
    slow down

    Quote-
    Lesson 1 of a Eagle Driver- Never Pass Up The Oppotunity To Keep Your Mouth Shut.

    Quote II-
    That was the greatest show ever on tv. Then they just stopped showing it. Didnt even say why....

    I wonder as well- no comment, maybe those darstedly Flanker pilots could be listening.
    remember lesson 1.

    The F-15 is a widowmaker. Either you conquer the plane- or it will conquer you. 12G's sorts out the men
    from the boys.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 22-07-2007 at 09:41 PM.

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    Australia should of got F-15Ks similar to South Korea for
    strike duties.

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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    http://www.physorg.com/news9584.html
    Very interesting.

    Quote-
    If the new material performs up to expectations, it could have a dramatic impact on the performance and efficiency of both commercial and military aircraft. Jones said that Pratt &Whitney engineers estimated that replacing various components in one particular jet engine with the Al-Y-Ni alloy could potentially lighten the engine by 350 pounds. That's an astronomical weight reduction in aircraft design, where engineers are typically happy to reduce the weight of components by a few pounds here or there.

    That would certainly help the good- ol power to weight ratios.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5BC0A966958260
    Id love to shove two of those in the back end. The biggest problem still is running out of puff due to fuel limitations.
    Now if you had ramjet intakes you could keep on going.

    http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/110.htm
    Sure would help at altitude and help the planet as well.

    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science...et-fuels_x.htm
    New juice.

    http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/004164.html
    Biofuel juice.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 22-07-2007 at 10:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Federal Election 2007

    screw the un its a waste of time and effort anyway use our own oil.
    sell oil to the usa for f15 and f22 planes
    metals for the parts and there entrie fleet of f1/11 planes in the junkyard
    if the threaten us with oh no a nasty letter mabey we should stop exports like uranium or aluminium for a month we need the stock piles to build up again and africa can only export so much.
    we dont have the largest open pit mines for no reason.
    Last edited by Lyonsy; 26-07-2007 at 07:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Federal Election 2007

    America is still umming and arrrggghing about China at the moment,
    I think its time to cut diplomatic relations as they are directly trying
    to sabotage the American and EU economies. Its only recently
    have people woken up to it. I knew it since the Vietnam War-
    China's true aspirations. It wants to side with Saudi Arabia to
    create two fronts- the Middle East and China. Why is China
    so interested in MidEast oil as well?

    America would be glad to sell the F-22 as Kraken said before
    the PM only has to ask. The JSF is only a F-16 replacement
    as such and even if it were to be put into whats called
    'priority development' the first USAF jet would not be
    ready till 2009 at the earliest- tieing up F-22 production
    which has angered USAF chiefs. I say scrap the JSF
    and start building more F-22's. The JSF is a cut price special.
    We gave P-40's (the top of the line at the time) to Australia
    before WWII started. USAF P-40's were stationed in Darwin...

    As for what side Russia is going to take- well Russia hates
    China since 1967 border clashes. It reminds me though
    how we begrudgingly sided with Stalin (Putin) in WWII but.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 26-07-2007 at 08:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Federal Election 2007

    its allways best to side the evil you know which whould be the us and russia for both sides.
    the the other guy who will cut your throat.
    but the big question is will puttin think he can control china with his tech which ant to far ahead of china now hasent advanced much in the last 20 years hell they should have mig 40's to match the f22 not 30's trying to compete with the f15.
    what i think is needed is a mix of botht he jsf and f22 we need to volume the jsf can provide with the dont touch what you cant afford f22 to really hit the kill ratio up.with all decomissioned and current planes on flat out defensive duties ie the dams.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
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    Default Re: Federal Election 2007

    Were going waaaaaay off topic here. The F-15 beats a JSF in a dogfight
    due to the F-15 being able to do more G's than it. The JSF has stealth thats all
    and supercruise. Having a single engine is not good in a air battle. F-16 pilots
    prefer the -15. Its a air superiority fighter after all. The F-22 adds thrust
    vectoring and even more powerful engines+ stealth and the best computer
    systems known only to 'god' himself. The Iseali Air Force still does not
    worry about Syrian Mig29s or Iranian Su27's for that matter.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-adcRA3u8Q
    Send me to the hospital please- my bones and guts feel like crap.
    Will make you feel like a old man too many times. She burns through
    her pilots.

    I love my aeroplanes- the F-15 has never been defeated in battle as its
    pilots can fly to the envelope and beyond. Its superstructure can
    'hyper G'. It can do maneavers only a Mig29 can try and match.
    The Mig29 supposedly has a cine film of maneavers that could not
    be performed by any other jet. A F-15 can do that and more
    and its airframe lasts allot longer. Maybe that why the USAF
    wants it to go on much longer. Though it takes its toll on pilots.
    The F-22 is a easier jet to fly- pricewise more expensive.
    You may have remembered a while back a F-15 pulling 40g's....
    A f-16 or Mig29/ Su27 or JSF would rip apart...

    http://www.officialsecretsact.org/content/view/128/3/
    The only reason the F-22 came about was the idiots sold
    the Saudis F-15's. Though our pilots would ahem...
    give them a nylon letdown.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...la-home-center
    and now we are regretting it, Isreal obviously was furious.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUoWX...elated&search=
    You are right about it being an A model with 229's but the F-15 doesn't run in blocks like the 16. And, if you removed all the avionics and radar out of the front of the plane it would sit on its ass. I've seen it at Elmendorf. Go to my profile and send me a message and I'll send you one back with the Air Force records site.
    drool. less weight even faster. logical.

    A Flanker has taken back one or two records- how quickly would they end. If we could drop 350lbs with
    those new fangled turbine things.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 01-08-2007 at 01:02 PM.

  22. #22
    Forum Veteran Lyonsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    the flying sam site is an awsome plane.
    thing i like best was it was designed with 2 of everything incase one failed.
    and yes id rather aus had just f22 or f15 but we could not afford it in sufficent numbers i beleave to be able to have deep strike with defense ability's.
    the jsf whould be more like a back line while the f22 whould be a rover.
    best thing id like f22 deep strike air supority f15 the backline.
    but could 60 planes hold off the entire china airforce or sufficently weaken it with out losing many planes.
    as good as the f15 f22 are some times numbers just do the job.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  23. #23
    Banned ELSpeedo's Avatar
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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    the flying sam site- never heard of it?
    illaborate.

    The F-22 and F-15 are both hunters- the F-22 has a secondary strike role.
    THE JSF is by name a strike-fighter- like a F-18/F-16 but with stealth.

    The JSF is still a very good plane but the RAAF could ask for a F-22.
    F-15's are the F-22's little brother and form the backbone of air
    superiority still and the F-22 is the pointy end.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQL9Kxxd88s&feature=fvw
    A old USAF pilot joke movie- The game of panels...
    Yes that Sabre did go under the bridge. Could not do that with a F-15
    you'd probably blow cars right off the road- damn thrust.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq110...eature=related
    I wonder if my Falcon could have F86 parked next to it
    Possibly ex Pakistan AF or even old European ones. Maintenance makes
    a car look practically simple.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 03-08-2009 at 01:24 PM.

  24. #24
    Forum Veteran Lyonsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    the Isreal piolets nicknamed the f15 when the first got it the flying sam site due to the amount of weopens it held along with the computer systems which could kill bogies before seeing them rember they got f15's after flying the mircle and duking it out with migs.
    the f18 is the big bro to the f16 and was bourne out of the same project make a light weight dog fighter.
    one was taken by the navy f18 one by the airforce the f16.
    ironicly the the new f18 we are getting is simerlar size to the the f15 which is was designed to sit below in weight and weopens.
    one thing ive noticed with the aus planes since the 70's is they are all capable of taking off and landing on aircraft carriers even the f1/11 but was never used for that role.
    a f15 cant but i think a f22 can not sure but.
    and the jsf can.
    Last edited by Lyonsy; 27-07-2007 at 11:34 PM.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  25. #25
    Forum Veteran Lyonsy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No F-22 for Australia

    ill be impressed with the f22 if it can do this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1aKxAN7bAs

    now thats a tough plane
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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