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Thread: The Fission legacy

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    Default The Fission legacy

    Looks like Oppenheimer's words fell on deaf ears.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6452751.stm
    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/oppenheimer.jpg
    Quote-
    or any development of these elements means horror, death and the
    end of mankind
    - J. Robert Oppenheimer.

    Anybody who supports the development and advancement
    of nuclear weapons IMO is 'dangerous' to say the least. Its good
    some people stood up for this move which sends the wrong
    signals to the rest of the world- want security? get a nuke.
    What ever happened to the SALT treaty? 5 minutes to
    midnight has never been closer.

    Quote-
    Between £15bn and £20bn is due to be spent on new submarines to
    carry the Trident missiles. The fleet would take 17 years to develop and build, and would then last until about 2050.


    The angel of death's early Christmas present by Britain has been
    warmly received and he gives thanks to the British Govt on
    their landmark decision. The next generation can feel safer
    that the prospect of nuclear death can be prolonged for their
    own safety by M.A.D. Wonder what that money could be
    spent on instead on things that would benefit the British
    people instead of the reality of M.A.D.

    http://www.rethinktrident.org.uk/

    Now John Howard if Britain has newer nukes why can't we
    have our own nukes as well? We would surely feel safer.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 15-03-2007 at 09:15 PM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    Does GWB know what the SALT treaty was?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBUzT...elated&search=
    Russia im sure is furious.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    I don't think that you can lay this soley on the doorstep of GWB, meaning unfortunately that there is plenty of blame to go 'round on both sides. To put it bluntly people on both sides and at every level have not only missed golden opportunities to further the aims and well being of both states and their people, but have managed to create myriad situations in which one side or the other has felt slighted or even threatened, and legitimately so no less, generally for no good reason.

    Russia and the U.S. have never had so many common interests, or the ability to do so much to assist each other in every way from issues of security to economics. But instead of this we get ridiculous political wrangling that serves nobody.

    Examples: The United States government thinks that we should be able to dispell terrorist threats in nations halfway around the world, but Russia is criticized for dealing with the Islamic militants in their own back yard. On the other hand Russia hasn't done nearly enough to secure their weapons arsenals or those of neighboring states, especially non-conventional weapons, but they don't want the U.S. to do anything to safeguard against those threats despite the risk this poses.

    I just don't get it. Sometimes I wonder if these guys are stuck in the Cold War.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    The Cold War never ended. Leaving me very confused. When Russia now calls itself the 'Soviet Union' I feel as if that old Simspons comic re-appearing- Russia the sleeping bear awakens. The US and Russia are unofficially at war in the Crimea by the US supporting Georgia and Russian influence in Mid East countries makes me wonder about the power plays of old. With the expansion of NATO, Russia is very worried. It would be like the Russian putting a anti-missile screen in Cuba or Nicaragua on Americas doorstep. I think the way to avoid a return to the old days is through some clever dialogue though when talking with Putin who knows what he is thinking...

    Russia is still fighting Muslim separatists in Chechnya but is supporting Syria, Iran, Jordan and Pakistan by stealth.
    It does not make sense here.

    Still we shoud be putting less nukes around and get the Ruskis to do the same. Either side is also spending heaps on next gen nuclear developments most of which of both sides are still secret or hearsay. Russia is advancing its mobile launcher technology and lets not forget that old Spetznaz trick box the nuke briefcase bomb of which 14? are still missing.

    The Americans are pouring money in neutron bombs and bunker buster nukes and all the other mini- nuclear states want theirs too. Its a very dangerous game that needs to stop. What next? B1Bs doing the Alaska-Russia alerts again? They stopped those in 1992-3.

    The biggest fear is the weaponisation of space now shown show brazenly by China. Will that push the Americans and
    Russians in the upper atmosphere? That would then put the stakes even higher.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 20-03-2007 at 12:24 AM.



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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    Though this information may be old some of the civil defence
    laws and state of emergency laws my be enacted in a time
    of crisis. Id love to find out how Australia would react in
    this time of crisis. Be alert not alarmed- lol

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxKkL...elated&search=
    This stuff is disturbing but it is actually modelled off the real thing the military
    and government has trained for. This would include a - nuclear accident at a power plant.

    The War Game is a 1965 television film on nuclear war. Written, directed, and produced by Peter Watkins for the BBC's The Wednesday Play strand, its depiction of the impact of Soviet nuclear attack on Britain caused dismay within the BBC and in government. It was scheduled for transmission on August 6, 1966 (the anniversary of the Hiroshima attack) but was not transmitted until 1985, the corporation publicly stating that "the effect of the film has been judged by the BBC to be too horrifying for the medium of broadcasting". It was widely viewed before its BBC debut on video and in art-house cinemas, often using prints provided by Watkins. The film won the Academy Award for Documentary Feature in 1966.

    Remember its five minutes to midnight- still.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 02-04-2007 at 11:18 PM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdzy...elated&search=
    Why all nuclear weapons should be banned. Einstein was right. I wonder if he would have went ahead if he could have seen the future.

    Stop the Madness! Bring all parties together to talk about things. This world does not deserve such a fate.
    I recommend digging a shelter atleast 2M underground if you hear things globally are going pear shaped.
    During the Cuban Missile crisis many did this. A Morrison shelter is a good idea.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z52dW...elated&search=
    and the meek shall inherit the earth- for what little its now worth.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 18-04-2007 at 11:13 AM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    Is it back to the 'good old days'?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6570533.stm

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...4/s1908714.htm

    Quote-
    However, Mr Putin says the range of the system, which is designed to shoot down overflying missiles, would extend right to the Ural mountains, covering the European section of Russia.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-2UTTH_Topol_M

    MAD is alive and well in the 21st century- good to hear.

    More subs out of their pens... as a counterbalance

    http://www.dia.mil/history/art/images/sub_ship.jpg
    Far from history my friends....
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 02-05-2007 at 11:06 PM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.


    Its not all smiles and sunshine...

    Looks like the talks in Moscow make me believe their is a freezing over
    in relations between the US and Russia. If the US can put ABM system
    in the Czech republic and Poland why cannot Russia station them in
    Cuba and Nicaragua? America would be furious if that happened.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6658633.stm

    Quote-
    These were the first talks since February when Mr Putin accused the US of seeking global dominance.

    Mr Putin does not mince his words for a old KGB hand he says it how it is.
    US-Russian relations are at a new all time low.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6652747.stm
    Putin vs Rice. Whats the odds? My collegues in the old ministry
    think the Cold War is back but not little Miss Optimistic Dr Rice.

    My odds.

    Rice 10-1
    Putin 3-1 even favourite.


    I personally would not mess with Mr Putin. It would rather be like holding two death adders and walking in a minefield.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 16-05-2007 at 09:41 PM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6668111.stm
    Putin uses his thumb- bad sign.


    Quote-
    German Chancellor Angela Merkel expressed alarm at the detention of activists intending to protest against the Russian government.
    Vladimir Putin retorted that Estonia's ethnic Russians were being persecuted.
    In a BBC interview after the summit, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said the future status of Kosovo should be decided by the Serbian people.

    He said those who thought it could be determined by Russia, the EU and the US were burdened by colonial instincts.

    EU leaders have recently expressed alarm about Russian threats to veto a UN Security Council resolution proposing Kosovo's de facto independence from Serbia.


    In this case I agree with Putin. Kosovo is still Serbian land. The EU fails to understand this.
    IN hindsight this is a good excuse for the EU to hold while while Russia plays games
    with European gas supplies.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 14-06-2007 at 05:32 PM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    Putin is using that thumb again....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6700585.stm
    Welcome back to the Cold War. Russian next generation missile test.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4667532.stm
    Quote-
    "These missile systems don't represent a response to a missile defense system, but they are immune to that. They are hypersonic and capable of changing their flight path."


    yes they always are moving around.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 30-05-2007 at 08:44 PM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.


    So and your family can feel better.

    The Bear roars again. Welcome back to Cold War- Putin
    has made it official. Im sure the EU behind the scenes
    is very worried. A massive attack by Russian MRBM's would
    obliterate Europe and with new super missiles developed
    by Russia will go through any American missile shield...

    When you design a defense your opponent will design
    a counter offense and so on. Bush is very unwise to
    go along this path as China has already shown a big
    interest in upper atmosphere weaponry.

    Now the race for weapons in space....
    The background toward WWIII continues.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6719507.stm

    Quote-
    And Nato spokesman James Appathurai went further, saying Russia was "the only country speculating about targeting Europe with missiles".
    "These kind of comments are unhelpful and unwelcome."
    Mr Putin's spokesman has since attempted to soothe the row, describing the Russian leader's comment as a "hypothetical" response to a "hypothetical" question.

    From personal experience people from the KGB/FSVD do not
    use hypotheticals they don't mince their words like the CIA do.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kma679-WvVc
    Funny how art imitates life. WW3 would be counted in
    the hundreds of millions of casualties. I think they
    took the real world scenario by Janes about a invasion
    of Alaska followed before the large Russian tank armies
    cutting through Europe. In a shooting war now NATO
    would probably be outnumbered and Americas border
    security....
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 05-06-2007 at 08:00 PM.

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    Talking Re: More nuclear weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by ELSpeedo View Post
    Funny how art imitates life. WW3 would be counted in the hundreds of millions of casualties.
    Or that life imitates art.

    It will be billions. Once started - no turning back.
    I am become Death: The Destroyer of Worlds.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    If we go of two doctrines of nuclear war.

    Limited Attack- Washington and Moscow and important C&C targets.
    or Massive Attack- all military/strategic and civilian/cultural targets of importance.

    Limited attack was coined by NATO commanders back in the 80's
    of a small nuclear weapons being used in a tactical capability.
    However politically it could easily be escalated to the missiles capable
    of obliterating cities one MIRV at a time.

    Limited War would kill hundreds of millions-a MAD based attack you mentioned would wipe out close to 90% of the human race.

    MAD is a distinct possibility you have mentioned but as you may know
    tactical nuclear weapons and the belief in 'limited nuclear war'
    have made a recent comeback in western military strategic thinking
    especially by the US.

    http://www.bpmedia.org/shownewsitem.aspx?newsid=86
    Like me, they are very worried as well.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 05-06-2007 at 03:42 PM.

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    Talking Re: More nuclear weapons.

    Good points.

    Yes, I was using the MAD model. A 'limited' scenario would be a regional or even country specific conflict.

    Example: Israel-Iran with Israel using MOABs with a nuclear payload. Strike key fault lines and trigger earthquakes.

    As for Russia becoming more brazen - I think they are missing being the Other Major Player on the world stage, and do not want to secede any influence to China.
    I am become Death: The Destroyer of Worlds.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=271391

    Look at that Kraken trying to Deny things that China
    is not playing games in the South China Sea.

    A missile shield for Australia would be under Russian
    and Chinese nuclear targets. You don't have a nuclear
    stockpile for nothing, more targets of course.

    Mr Putin im sure would be giving the Japanese
    no-lee-way in not becoming aggressive in the Kurils
    after missile defence gave their foe a big advantage...

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...6/s1945071.htm
    Looks like nuclear war is quite popular amoung the masses.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 08-06-2007 at 11:46 AM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    No missiles in Poland or the Czech republic in not so many words...
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6737207.stm
    I don't think George knows how angry Vlad is.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    george dont care he dont have to worry about being re elected just gotta help his mates a bit more before he leaves
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    help his mates?

    Russia is hugely angry and it could also push the temperature
    over the Iran issue at the UN Security council and the
    issue over Kosovo. This shows the faultline between
    the EU and Russia over resource wars at present.
    It is also the reason why they want to be going
    to alternative fuels ASAP. Its got now very big.

    The large amount of SAM and Anti-Cruise missile
    weaponry sold to Iran demonstrate this. All now
    is for more SU-27s to be sold there.

    Iraq is turning more Vietnam War like with a bit of Beirut
    thrown in. A useless war America is stuck in
    but cannot get out of. When you are caught in bloody
    street house to house fighting, locals fighting
    amoungst themselves and yourselves...

    Iran is potentially Americas new North Vietnam

    Pakistan is Americas new Laos.

    Afganistan is Americas new Cambodia.

    the bathtub is leaking badly.

    George W Bush legacy will be worse than Nixon.

    It will take America 20 years to get out of the rut
    diplomatically. It helped Foreign relations as much
    as 1973-1983-2003 did.

    Russia is not Americas friend anymore- a estwhile ally
    of convenience- the feeling is mutual. If you go back
    to the Yalta conferences legacy and the meeting
    in Tehran in WWII you will understand the outcomes
    which ultimately seem to be...

    The situation if Gerogia could break out in the Crimea
    we will have a major problem especially with US
    support for the Georgia. Ossettia also poses
    problems the US does not seem wanting to know.

    It won't be long before B1b's be doing their round
    runs of Vladivostok again- lol

    http://www.dnd.ca/site/newsroom/file...rcept_Bear.jpg
    Is it happening again? If it is you can assume Russian subs will be out
    and about again as well.

    http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/...ed_waters.html
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 14-06-2007 at 05:40 PM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    Quote-
    Russia has repeatedly dismissed US claims the defence shield is only targeting so-called rogue states, such as Iran and North Korea, and in response has said it may aim its missiles at Europe once more.

    Do I smell another ruse for a advantage in nuclear chess.
    Nuclear chess is a great stategic game of out-flanking a
    adversary by missiles at advantageous spots. Then once
    increasing weapons in number a 'party' could mount
    a massive attack and knock the 'enemies' strategic
    defenses...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6734395.stm
    I don't think either the Joint defense missile
    shield in in Azerbaijan- will ever take off.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6757729.stm
    Will NATO and Russia end their truce.
    Things are going to be interesting in
    Poland, Hungary, Romania as well...

    Quote-
    The Kremlin says the 1990 treaty is outdated and restricts its ability to move troops around its own territory.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6583587.stm
    Quote-
    The issue also threatens repercussions in other areas of arms control, with Russia talking of pulling out of its 1987 treaty with the United States banning intermediate range nuclear forces (the INF treaty).

    The Cold War unthawing?
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 16-06-2007 at 10:54 AM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    Anybody who thinks the Cold War is not back must
    be living in denial. I thought it never ended- it just
    went quiet or more hospitable for a while during the
    90's. However since then much has changed geo-politically
    between the US and Russia.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6251082.stm

    Quote-
    Russia has successfully tested a new, sea-based ballistic missile from a nuclear submarine, officials have said.

    The weapon, capable of breaching anti-missile defence systems, flew almost the whole length of the country.

    US plans to build a missile defence shield in Europe have angered Russia, which sees the proposal as a challenge to its influence in the region.

    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 29-06-2007 at 12:01 PM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    Its upping the ante now as well.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6269408.stm

    British & Russian relations have never been better
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6679799.stm

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6898690.stm

    Quote-
    Russia's suspension of its application of the treaty is yet another sign of a worsening relationship between the US and Russia, says the BBC's diplomatic correspondent, Jonathan Marcus.

    An informal meeting earlier in July at the Bush family's Maine home seems to have done very little to improve ties between the two leaders, he says.

    It is also yet one more sign of a more assertive Russian foreign policy, our diplomatic correspondent says.

    The CFE agreement of 1990 was one of the most significant arms control agreements of the Cold War years.

    It set strict limits on the number of offensive weapons - battle tanks, combat aircraft, heavy artillery - that the members of the Warsaw Pact and Nato could deploy in Europe, stretching from the Atlantic to the Urals.


    Quote II-
    But this revised treaty has never been ratified by the Nato countries who want Russia to withdraw all of its forces from two breakaway regions with Russian-speaking majorities - Abkhazia in Georgia and Trans-Dniester in Moldova.

    There has been a war/s over the Crimea before. Since their is loads of oil
    there and a major strategic area to boot.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 14-07-2007 at 10:06 PM.

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    his mates the oil compaine's and building contractors who are recieving very large sums of money to keep iraq oil flowing.
    it happend for communism it happend fort he britsh empire it happened for spain it happened for the romen's
    what i think iam watching now is the fall of the west as we know it.
    the EU knows it the britsh know it and why they want on the EU band wagon
    but does the usa know it.
    but i doubt there will be a peacful outcome actully i think there wont be a outcome with out ww3 just hope some survive i might see if i can get a job in antratica soon i hear there standerd of living is better then australia now.
    Last edited by Lyonsy; 18-07-2007 at 07:16 PM.
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and no one is really sure about the universe yet"
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

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    Default Re: More nuclear weapons.

    I'll be sitting on the other side of the Great Dividing Range atleast the fallout debris won't be as bad. Most of the watercourses and boreholes on my plot should be ok.

    I hope America and Russia can kiss and make up as this nuclear sabre rattling
    is downright dangerous and serves nobody.

    If Iraq collapses when the Yanks pull out I hope the Middle East can sort
    itself out without a Adolph Hitler MkII emerging. If Pakistan falls and gets
    taken over by religious extremists then we will have problems- big problems.
    Im sure the Isrealis are anticipating every situation. Pakistani's nutjobs
    give nukes to Iran. Sayonarra.

    While old Osama lies somewhere in Northern Pakistan but hey? we cannot
    touch him there. We can invade Iraq lay a country to waste and start
    a civil war while the real culprits scheme and plan and nothing is being
    done? Now thats what I call a war on Terror. Though in all likelihood Pakistans
    old foe India will sort them out. Though then a nuclear exchange would
    be even more likerly. Then China will join in then the US and Russia
    and then we will have a nuclear free for all. Then we all will be in
    the afterlife probably and the survivors would pray for death.

    Hard choices all around if we don't get our leaders to sit down and start
    looking at what happens if they screw up. I wish they could get their heads
    out of their asses and can see what could happen. I don't know why
    the whole world is going suicidal all of a sudden.

    The Australian standard of living? Now my Dad talks about the good
    old days and sometimes I wish I was born 40 odd years before. Knowing my
    luck I probably would have been conscripted and sent to Vietnam.
    Cannot win can you?
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 19-07-2007 at 11:57 AM.

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