View Poll Results: So should Ford keep the low-po V8 or start something new and offer the turbocharged 6

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  • Keep the V8.

    17 41.46%
  • Replace the low-po V8 with the TI6.

    19 46.34%
  • Unsure.

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Thread: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

  1. #1
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    Default E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    The following is a combination of rumours and speculation from both reliable and less reliable sources.

    I have heard that Ford will not be selling the 3 valve 5.4 V8 as an option on the E240/E8/Orion Falcon which is due to go on sale in March 2008. The 5 valve 5.4 V8 will continue on in the XR8 and FPV range.
    So what does Ford intend to do about anyone who doesnít want or canít afford a XR8/FPV? Offer the turbocharged 4.0 I6 on models other than the XR6 Turbo. I know that it will be available on more than the XR6 but itís unknown how many others will have the option.


    I guess the question has to be asked, will people accept it or is there still a lot of affection for a V8? Iím sure that the TI6 will be a better engine and being Aussie built, it helps things run along here and it should be cheaper than paying for an exported V8. But it wonít come with the V8 rumble and as weíve seen with Holdenís VE range, there is still a lot of demand for V8s (one in four are V8s).
    But are 6cyls the Ďnew V8í with both Toyota/TRD and Mitsubishi looking at releasing high powered 6cyls in the near future and they should be perceived as more fuel efficient than he 8yls which will be a bonus.



    So should Ford keep the low-po V8 or start something new and offer the turbocharged 6cyl on more models?
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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    We dont know that 1 in 4 VE's are selling as V8's because the engine's a V8 though. People may simply want a 270kw engine.

    I think ideally they should offer both. People who want a V8 will buy a V8, whilst those that just want a performance oriented car will have the option of something lighter and better balanced.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    what models is the V8 available in the VE range? i dont think it is an option on Omega/Berlina?

    i think ford should upgrade the DOHC V8 so it is actually competitive and perhaps offer a low blow turbo option in some of the other models.

    i dont reckon they need 2 v8s, just focus on making one decent one...

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Keep the V8 and stop chokeing both of them.


    the v8 in the Commodores is the L96 6ltr GEN IV. 270kw and 520nm.


    the current Barra V8 is 230kw and 500nm with VCT.

    I recon they should unchoke the barra v8 and make it similar in power to the Commodore.


    Its possible but it seems people at ford are very ANTI-V8 and would rather go the I6 route.

    It bit them last time lets see what happens.

    if there is no V8 Ghia option in Orion im not buying one. I wil go and buy a Calais.

    Only ford has the weird ideas to drop something people want.

    By the way the 3V is not LO-PO at all. Would surprise a few people who have never been in one.



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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    The 3v has a plethora of goodies available in the US. Just because Ford makes X output does not mean you cannot find some extra ponies hiding.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    But the thing is, the entire Ford line-up is very very underpowered, except for the Barra 190. Even the FPV engines have been detuned severely. I really don't know why Ford just don't turn the dial a bit more.

    They seem to be doing silly things again, and silly things cost money and customers.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    If Ford develops a 3V version of the 5.0 with DFI, this would replace the 5.4.
    I think the Turbo 6 is the go across the board with DFI, 300 Kw here we come!

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    With the BOSS V8 stretching to over 6L i'd sooner bet at that replacing the 4.6 actually.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    what models is the V8 available in the VE range? i dont think it is an option on Omega/Berlina?
    It's an option on Berlina, Calais, Statesman and Caprice.

    I've got no idea about what Flint's thinking was with the BOSS290 and if FPV couldn't safely increase power or Flint wanted to stay below 300kWs on a matter of principle. With the technology in the BOSS motor I can't understand why it's so crap (in comparison with far less sophisticated engines such as the GMH 6.0).

    if there is no V8 Ghia option in Orion im not buying one. I wil go and buy a Calais
    But what if the Ghia Turbo is a better car?
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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    I donít understand why Ford just canít use one V8 and make it standard on the XR8 and an option on the other models. Holden have been using the same engine across the range for years and it hasnít held back and of their cars (namely the flag ship SS). It would have to be far cheaper as it would reduce the complexity of development and production and the economies of scale should keep the single engine fairly cheap.

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    Forum Veteran JPD80's Avatar
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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteSV View Post
    I don’t understand why Ford just can’t use one V8 and make it standard on the XR8 and an option on the other models. Holden have been using the same engine across the range for years and it hasn’t held back and of their cars (namely the flag ship SS). It would have to be far cheaper as it would reduce the complexity of development and production and the economies of scale should keep the single engine fairly cheap.
    That's Ford for you. Their superior egos won't accept a simple solution to a problem. All we needed was a hand built 351 SVO similar to the GEN III and everyone would have been happy but no, we got an overcomplicated solution.
    Why is ford always hard-way Harry with everything?
    Last edited by JPD80; 18-12-2006 at 04:28 PM.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by JPD80 View Post
    All we needed was a hand built 351 SVO similar to the GEN III and everyone would have been happy but no, we got an overcomplicated solution.

    That still wouldve had half the problems the Boss has in that being hand built makes it too expensive.

    We know the 4V V8 wasnt approved until very late for BA, hence the late on sale date for the GT and XR8. If Ford felt the 3V engine was sufficient for that sort of performance application, they probably would have used it. What they chose however was something with alot more breathing capabilities due to the larger intake and extra valve per cylinder. For all we know, the 3V engine (which is a TRUCK engine) was breathless in the top end of the rev range. It seems conveniant that Ford also only sell them with a 5250rpm rev limit.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteSV View Post
    I donít understand why Ford just canít use one V8 and make it standard on the XR8 and an option on the other models. Holden have been using the same engine across the range for years and it hasnít held back and of their cars (namely the flag ship SS). It would have to be far cheaper as it would reduce the complexity of development and production and the economies of scale should keep the single engine fairly cheap.
    Agreed. All they would need to do is detune it slightly for the garden variety cars by fitting a more restrictive exhaust and air intake and a few computer tweaks.

    How many 3 valve V8s to Ford sell anyway. SFA I would imagine.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Now before you ask, I don’t work for FPV.
    When they’re selling as many cars as they can build, isn’t that proof of the fact that not all Aussie performance car buyers want big figures to brag about? My car’s performance is adequate for what it is and I’m very happy with it.
    In saying that, Ford would be silly to drop the V8 option on cars such as the Fairmont Ghia, Fairlane and LTD. I bet they sell next to zero V8 XTs and Futuras, but a V8 in the higher-end models would be common. Australia is a traditional market and there are plenty of people who'd only want a V8. If they want to drop the V8, they might as well go FWD as well.

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    Forum Veteran JPD80's Avatar
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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by GTDavid View Post
    .....In saying that, Ford would be silly to drop the V8 option on cars such as the Fairmont Ghia, Fairlane and LTD. I bet they sell next to zero V8 XTs and Futuras, but a V8 in the higher-end models would be common. Australia is a traditional market and there are plenty of people who'd only want a V8. If they want to drop the V8, they might as well go FWD as well.
    It's fair to say Ford didn't support the 5.4 3V at all - no attempt was made to market it in a Falcon Sprint, not even an LSD option. With a few tweeks it could have been so much more.

    The V8 will always have it's place but if they now offered a Turbo 6 across the board for $3,000:
    1. Would those upper model V8 sales reduce significantly - Fairmont Ghia Turbo?
    2. Would those Turbo XTs sell like hotcakes to private buyers and novated lease plans?

    I got my $3,000 figure as an approximate difference between XR6 NA & XR6 Turbo, that's about $2,500 less than a V8 option.
    Last edited by JPD80; 19-12-2006 at 01:46 PM.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by JPD80 View Post
    It's fair to say Ford didn't support the 5.4 3V at all - no attempt was made to market it in a Falcon Sprint, not even an LSD option. With a few tweeks it could have been so much more.
    Every 3V BF2 sold comes with 17" wheels, performance brakes, 6 speed auto and sports suspension. Is that not a form of support?

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Just look at what horsepower that we had years ago in the US avaliable
    after market. Who needs Ford. Build or get your own motor aftermarket
    instead- thats what I do. I hope FPV go soon as Id love more serious
    folks like SVT and Shelby instead going to war with HSV. No power
    shortfalls anymore. If Rousch came back to Australia we'd have a GTHO
    in no time flat. Its only the conservative board at Ford Oz that seems lazy
    on the pickup I wonder sometimes. I hope Mullany is looking at FPV as well
    to see if they can 'get serious' about performance. Were looking at
    export oppotunities. A marriage of a Australian chassis with a American
    motor

    That motor would have been great in the T3.
    http://www.fordcobraengines.com/347_...elInjected.htm
    If only Ford Oz had a catalogue like this! Goodbye GTS....

    lesson- you always find better motors in the states.
    Last edited by ELSpeedo; 19-12-2006 at 02:57 PM.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by ELSpeedo View Post
    That motor would have been great in the T3.
    http://www.fordcobraengines.com/347_...elInjected.htm
    If only Ford Oz had a catalogue like this! Goodbye GTS....

    lesson- you always find better motors in the states.
    You'd want it to be better for $US9K

  19. #19
    Forum Veteran JPD80's Avatar
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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by FPV GTHO View Post
    Every 3V BF2 sold comes with 17" wheels, performance brakes, 6 speed auto and sports suspension. Is that not a form of support?
    Maybe but no one knows about it - no advertising.
    On Discount New Cars. that option = $8,000.
    That makes the V8 XT $2,000 cheaper than an XR8 and only $1,000 cheaper than an XR6T - not good value, they still don't offer LSD with the Barra 230, strange that.
    They're effectively charging the same for a Barra 230 as for a Barra 260!
    Last edited by JPD80; 19-12-2006 at 04:55 PM.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by JPD80 View Post
    The V8 will always have it's place but if they now offered a Turbo 6 across the board for $3,000:
    1. Would those upper model V8 sales reduce significantly - Fairmont Ghia Turbo?
    2. Would those Turbo XTs sell like hotcakes to private buyers and novated lease plans?

    I got my $3,000 figure as an approximate difference between XR6 NA & XR6 Turbo, that's about $2,500 less than a V8 option.
    Now that would be interesting!
    Word on the street is that the V8 will only be available in the XR8 and FPVs so your first point wouldnít be relevant. I've heard from several different sources that a Fairmont Ghia Turbo is on the cards as well.
    I guess some would argue that by offering the turbo 6 on the XT, you'd be damaging the XR6Turbo. But would you? As people showed by the fact that the SS outsold the SV8, people will pay extra for a badge and a few extra goodies. To be responsible, you'd have to make 17 inch wheels and sports suspension standard on the XT Turbo so that would bump the price up to only one or two thousand less than the XR6T.
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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulST View Post
    Now that would be interesting!
    Word on the street is that the V8 will only be available in the XR8 and FPVs so your first point wouldnít be relevant. I've heard from several different sources that a Fairmont Ghia Turbo is on the cards as well.
    I guess some would argue that by offering the turbo 6 on the XT, you'd be damaging the XR6Turbo. But would you? As people showed by the fact that the SS outsold the SV8, people will pay extra for a badge and a few extra goodies. To be responsible, you'd have to make 17 inch wheels and sports suspension standard on the XT Turbo so that would bump the price up to only one or two thousand less than the XR6T.
    They could:
    XR6T = 270 KW + Sports suspension & Body Kit (Show off)
    XT Sprint = 240 Kw + ESP / 6-speed auto package (Reps sleeper)

  22. #22
    Forum Regular the engineer's Avatar
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    Cool Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    having bought a 3v V8 Ghia, I would have also considered a Fairmont Ghia Turbo if available. I don't believe it should be offered at XT or Futura level- too many mods would be required to make it safe.
    Now that Fairmont Ghia is (relatively) sporty, it could handle the turbo- and I was looking for a little luxury and performance. Nice mix with what I have.

    Orion gossip - they're playing round with s/c & turbo combos (like VW's FSIs) for the new XR6T as well as the turbo diesel (XR6TD). Perhaps that leaves room for the existing T6 engine for a Fairmont upgrade. Next XR6T and Typh will definitely have twin pipes. Orion engine bay is wider so the 4V 5.4 can drop in without needing a nasty bonnet.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by the engineer View Post
    having bought a 3v V8 Ghia, I would have also considered a Fairmont Ghia Turbo if available. I don't believe it should be offered at XT or Futura level- too many mods would be required to make it safe.
    Now that Fairmont Ghia is (relatively) sporty, it could handle the turbo- and I was looking for a little luxury and performance. Nice mix with what I have.

    Orion gossip - they're playing round with s/c & turbo combos (like VW's FSIs) for the new XR6T as well as the turbo diesel (XR6TD). Perhaps that leaves room for the existing T6 engine for a Fairmont upgrade. Next XR6T and Typh will definitely have twin pipes. Orion engine bay is wider so the 4V 5.4 can drop in without needing a nasty bonnet.
    Larger wheels, sports suspension and ESP would be the only mods required to make it safe and that's currently what comes with the 3V V8 so I think as long as Ford force people to option up the rest of the car as well as the engine, it's a safe move.
    Nasty bonnet? You're not a fan of the bulge? I hope they keep the bulge even if it's not functional! It's an icon of the Falcon V8 now, IMO.
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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Quote Originally Posted by the engineer View Post
    having bought a 3v V8 Ghia, I would have also considered a Fairmont Ghia Turbo if available. I don't believe it should be offered at XT or Futura level- too many mods would be required to make it safe.
    But your Barra 230 has nearly the same power and more torque than the T6.
    Just add the ESP pack to the XT for an extra $250 and pick up sports suspension and 17" wheels. That should stop the speed wobbles!

    Quote Originally Posted by the engineer View Post
    Now that Fairmont Ghia is (relatively) sporty, it could handle the turbo- and I was looking for a little luxury and performance. Nice mix with what I have.
    The difference between an XR6 NA and the XR8 with Barra 260 is now about $5,000 or the same price as optioning a Barra 230 over a Barra 190. a turbo 6 would be slightly cheaper again. Don't forget Holden will be offering a S/C Alloytec on VEII with an expected 250 to 260 KW and this will definitely be cheaper than optioning the $5,000 L97 (270 KW 6.0 Litre). Makes sense Ford offering a Fairmont Ghia with either a T6 or the Barra 260.

    Quote Originally Posted by the engineer View Post
    Orion gossip - they're playing round with s/c & turbo combos (like VW's FSIs) for the new XR6T as well as the turbo diesel (XR6TD). Perhaps that leaves room for the existing T6 engine for a Fairmont upgrade. Next XR6T and Typh will definitely have twin pipes. Orion engine bay is wider so the 4V 5.4 can drop in without needing a nasty bonnet.
    Hotter gossip - Ford are doing it because Holden will have S/C Alloytec and Turbo Diesel options ready for VEII release or near after..
    Last edited by JPD80; 04-01-2007 at 09:33 PM.

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    Default Re: E240 Falcon: 3v V8 vs Turbo I6?

    Hotter gossip - Ford are doing it because Holden will have S/C Alloytec and Turbo Diesel options ready for VEII release or near after..[/QUOTE]

    thanks for the replies....haven't been back to this thread for a while. Since then I've heard the same, but all quiet on Ford engine development. GMH will introduce the cyclinder shut-down concept with Pontiac G8 and then for VEII. Fuel consumption down to 11L/100km for a 6L V8.
    What can Ford do to combat this?

    The only new gossip is some engine dyno data flying around with a 340kW Boss Turbo. That would be something, although I would have thought supercharger to be a better option.

    So perhaps there's still life in the 3V V8, just not as the original motor, only BOSS'd up.

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